Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:02.827
Safety is not about rules and injury rates.
00:00:02.827 --> 00:00:03.951
It's about making it personal.
00:00:03.951 --> 00:00:09.228
There's no such thing as zero risk, so you've got to manage it to the point where you can deal with it.
00:00:09.300 --> 00:00:22.234
The way I categorize it is there's the safety professionals that are compliance focused yeah, and then there's the minority, the super tiny, teeny tiny number of safety professionals that are people focused.
00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:38.606
If you're going to be compliance focused, you're always going to be in the passenger seat on influencing the culture, because you're going to be the one getting influenced, versus in the driver's seat and influencing the work environment as a safety professional you have.
00:00:38.966 --> 00:00:56.531
I believe you have the ultimate platform to influence the business, to influence the leaders in their way they think and the decisions that they make in supporting the people, and you have a direct, no holds barred access to every level of the organization.
00:00:56.531 --> 00:01:02.921
What is going on?
00:01:02.921 --> 00:01:04.283
L&m family?
00:01:04.283 --> 00:01:19.376
I'm a pretty fortunate guy and that fortune I get to share with the family here I'm getting to introduce to you and learn more about Mr Craig, international safety superstar.
00:01:19.376 --> 00:01:24.823
Okay, I connected with Craig on the LinkedIn.
00:01:24.823 --> 00:01:38.655
He posts a really thought-provoking, straight-up, real perspective about safety and, more importantly, about human beings, which is what, of course, sparked me to say, hey, I need to reach out to this man and see what we can do.
00:01:38.655 --> 00:01:40.816
He's the founder of Keep Safe Consulting.
00:01:40.816 --> 00:01:44.947
He served in the Canadian Army, so he's no slouch.
00:01:44.947 --> 00:01:49.066
He's another baller we got we're lucky here, we got ballers on the show all the time.
00:01:49.647 --> 00:01:53.981
Studied at the University of Alberta, published author.
00:01:53.981 --> 00:01:55.525
He published Influence.
00:01:55.525 --> 00:01:59.212
It's Leadership and Safety at the Sharp End.
00:01:59.212 --> 00:02:03.948
There it is, yes, and I got questions about that title because I love it.
00:02:03.948 --> 00:02:24.206
I think it kind of reminded me of the Depth Builder logo here and if this is your first time here, you are listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see how real people just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it.
00:02:24.206 --> 00:02:28.944
I'm Jesse and we are going to get to know Mr Craig.
00:02:28.944 --> 00:02:31.349
Mr Craig, how are you doing good?
00:02:31.349 --> 00:02:32.472
Sir, I'm doing good.
00:02:32.472 --> 00:02:37.147
So, before we hit record, you kind of spilled the beans.
00:02:37.147 --> 00:02:38.150
You're in the hotels.
00:02:38.189 --> 00:02:43.008
You're a road warrior traveling all over Canada, I'm assuming, mostly.
00:02:43.048 --> 00:02:43.689
Western Canada.
00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:45.092
Lately it's been Alberta.
00:02:45.092 --> 00:02:47.842
That's big enough, right.
00:02:48.604 --> 00:02:51.330
That's plenty big, I think.
00:02:51.330 --> 00:02:57.850
Being from the States, it's hard for me to understand how big it is, except now I've got super cool friends in Canada.
00:02:57.950 --> 00:02:58.512
Alberta's like.
00:02:58.512 --> 00:03:03.991
It's like Canada's Texas, ah there we go, it's all of oil and gas and it's a big province.
00:03:03.991 --> 00:03:07.063
I drove up here to Fort Saskatchewan, north of Edmonton.
00:03:07.063 --> 00:03:11.554
It's, I think, 680 kilometers from my home, so 300 miles.
00:03:12.219 --> 00:03:14.129
Oh, that's a nice drive and you drove up that way.
00:03:14.330 --> 00:03:17.382
Yeah, I drove this time I did my vehicle for the job set Matt.
00:03:17.822 --> 00:03:21.467
Yeah yeah, I appreciate you making the time to squeeze us in.
00:03:21.467 --> 00:03:23.509
I got a softball of a question.
00:03:23.509 --> 00:03:27.955
Craig Sure, how do you define safety?
00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:30.143
Oh, that's a tough one.
00:03:30.143 --> 00:03:31.627
That shouldn't be tough, right?
00:03:31.627 --> 00:03:38.390
You're just managing risk Instead of saying, ah, no injuries, that's a given, but safety is just managing the risk.
00:03:39.051 --> 00:03:40.883
Yeah, that's it, really, that's it Okay.
00:03:40.883 --> 00:03:55.171
So when we hear risk, my, my brain says exposure, like people exposing their bodies, their limbs, their eyes to damage, and so safety is minimizing that exposure.
00:03:55.753 --> 00:03:58.286
yeah exposure is part of it.
00:03:58.286 --> 00:04:03.243
The longer you're exposed, your chances of having something go wrong right there it increases the risk.
00:04:03.344 --> 00:04:08.193
Yeah, got it got, and so I mentioned that you served in the Canadian Army.
00:04:08.193 --> 00:04:12.852
I also know that you did some mountaineering.
00:04:12.852 --> 00:04:14.585
Did you do that when you were in the Army?
00:04:14.585 --> 00:04:15.067
In the Army?
00:04:15.086 --> 00:04:17.858
yeah, it's kind of how I got into the safety role.
00:04:17.858 --> 00:04:20.108
I was a soldier, so I was in the infantry.
00:04:20.108 --> 00:04:27.129
When I left the Army I was a sergeant an infantry sergeant and the last couple of years in the summers I was a mountaineering instructor.
00:04:27.129 --> 00:04:29.213
We got the Rockies right out our back door.
00:04:29.213 --> 00:04:29.994
We did a lot of that.
00:04:29.994 --> 00:04:39.396
And when I left the Army one of the things I started doing was teaching high-angle rescue and confined space entry rope, technical rescue stuff in gas plants and refineries.
00:04:39.396 --> 00:04:44.509
So I kind of got into the safety field through training.
00:04:44.990 --> 00:04:47.226
Okay, so and so what's mountaineering?
00:04:47.226 --> 00:04:53.353
Because my simple mind says I crawled up a mountain one day, so I was doing mountaineering.
00:04:53.353 --> 00:04:55.047
But it's probably not that simple.
00:04:55.047 --> 00:04:56.564
There's some more complexities to it.
00:04:56.564 --> 00:04:57.910
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
00:04:58.420 --> 00:05:06.009
We were doing rock face climbing and we did cut it quite a few rescues of people that got into bad positions where they didn't know how to get out of.
00:05:06.009 --> 00:05:10.129
So we did a lot of ice work and crevasse rescue and stuff like that.
00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:16.927
Okay, so in the rescue, that wasn't like you jumping on a walkie-talkie and calling in a helicopter.
00:05:16.927 --> 00:05:21.771
What all do you do as a mountaineer when you're rescuing somebody?
00:05:21.771 --> 00:05:26.973
Because that sounds like intense, amazing and also maybe scary.
00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:28.464
Oh, potentially scary.
00:05:28.464 --> 00:05:45.505
Yeah, you're rappelling down on a rope line to somebody who's either fallen or they're stuck on a mountain where they oh, this is too hard now I don't know what to do, so rappel down on ropes and then sometimes haul them back up or keep going down, lowering them down Crevasse rescue, you're pulling them out of there.
00:05:45.505 --> 00:05:51.509
You've got two sheets of ice and they're in the middle here and you're going down to get them.
00:05:51.509 --> 00:05:54.216
Yeah, that's quite a deal.
00:05:54.699 --> 00:05:58.622
Yeah, I can only imagine it's all technical stuff, if you think of the movie Cliffhanger, that stuff.
00:05:59.362 --> 00:06:02.464
Yeah, okay With Stallone that was a good one.
00:06:02.464 --> 00:06:04.625
Yeah, okay, with Stallone, that was a good one.
00:06:04.625 --> 00:06:16.014
You were doing that in the Canadian Army and then you got into training for confined space entry and rescue Yep Because of the connection between the skill set you built in.
00:06:16.194 --> 00:06:16.675
Mountaineer.
00:06:16.675 --> 00:06:17.894
It was so transferable.
00:06:17.894 --> 00:06:21.117
It was all knots and ropes and carabiners and harnesses.
00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:30.380
You're exposed to height.
00:06:30.380 --> 00:06:32.461
In a commercial setting it might be a window washer on a skyscraper.
00:06:32.461 --> 00:06:33.723
You got to go get them because he's in a tough spot.
00:06:33.723 --> 00:06:34.944
Yeah, oh man, I bet that guy wasn't happy if he was stuck.
00:06:34.963 --> 00:06:36.064
I've never been in it, okay.
00:06:36.064 --> 00:06:49.035
So then my guess is this Mr Craig, mr Young Teenage did not decide he was going to be a published author and run his own safety consulting firm.
00:06:49.035 --> 00:06:50.937
It just kind of happened.
00:06:50.937 --> 00:06:51.817
Is that accurate?
00:06:51.817 --> 00:06:55.100
Yeah, that's a fair statement.
00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:55.442
Yep, yeah, okay.
00:06:55.442 --> 00:07:01.831
So what was originally when you were mapping out your life through high school and post high school?
00:07:01.831 --> 00:07:03.093
What was the plan?
00:07:03.093 --> 00:07:04.975
What direction were you headed?
00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:08.553
I for some reason always had an interest in the army, in the military.
00:07:08.553 --> 00:07:10.521
My parents were both in the Air Force.
00:07:10.521 --> 00:07:14.290
That's how they met, so there was a bit of a connection there.
00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:18.348
And I met my wife when I was in the army and I was going to be a lifer.
00:07:18.348 --> 00:07:22.244
I was going to be a soldier right to the end, but then I became a dad.
00:07:22.244 --> 00:07:24.848
So that kind of changed things Got it.
00:07:24.848 --> 00:07:28.514
I was in my late 20s almost 30, when I decided I was going to make a change.
00:07:28.514 --> 00:07:35.391
We had two little kids at the time and I thought you know, my kids didn't even like talking to me if they saw me packing away my stuff.
00:07:36.341 --> 00:07:38.543
Because, back then when I packed up my gear to go.
00:07:38.543 --> 00:07:39.704
I was gone for months, ah.
00:07:40.125 --> 00:07:41.586
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:41.586 --> 00:07:49.435
So they let you know like we don't like it that you're leaving us, like just go away, be gone, do it again yeah.
00:07:51.062 --> 00:07:53.639
I thought I would try and make a change while I was young enough to do it.
00:07:53.639 --> 00:08:00.910
I tried a couple of things that didn't pan out, because I assume the military is like this anywhere you go in as a young kid and it's a lifestyle, not a job.
00:08:00.910 --> 00:08:21.208
So, transitioning out, the military is really good at bringing young people in, molding them, and they're not so good at sending them the other way, which, of course, is why we have so many problems with our vets both in the us and canada, all over the world right yes, yes, yes, yes, like re-entry into civilian life is not yeah.
00:08:21.567 --> 00:08:23.901
So the first couple things you try, it doesn't work out.
00:08:23.901 --> 00:08:27.565
And then a guy I knew was looking for an instructor for high angle rescue.
00:08:27.565 --> 00:08:33.529
He knew I was looking for something and that's kind of how it connected, yeah yeah.
00:08:33.910 --> 00:08:35.975
So what was that like?
00:08:35.975 --> 00:08:37.600
Getting out of the military?
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.455
Pretty structured, pretty clear chain of command, pretty clear expectations.
00:08:43.455 --> 00:08:47.323
I'm assuming I've never been in the military coming into civilian life.
00:08:47.323 --> 00:08:48.647
Was that shocking?
00:08:49.369 --> 00:08:53.666
I was scared for sure, because not only do you have all that structure, you're pretty protected too, right, you know.
00:08:53.666 --> 00:08:55.129
You know what you got to do, you know.
00:08:55.129 --> 00:09:01.591
But I don't know if it was shocking it was, it was different.
00:09:01.591 --> 00:09:08.277
You heard that phrase beat 50 of the people, but just showing up, well, you probably beat 80 of them if you show up on time.
00:09:08.277 --> 00:09:17.432
And, of course, in the army, hey, you better be on time, right, yeah, yeah.
00:09:17.432 --> 00:09:21.280
So, and I heard this the other day and it was, it was brilliant.
00:09:21.280 --> 00:09:21.600
Do you know?
00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:22.380
Jocko welling Willinkas?
00:09:22.380 --> 00:09:23.542
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:09:25.703 --> 00:09:43.416
But before we go there we're going to do the L&M family member shout out, and this one goes to Mr Angel, who I got to meet as a construction management student at UTSA, did a little shindig over there with my mentor and friend, mike Hyman.
00:09:44.135 --> 00:09:59.130
Angel says this he said this event helped me realize and remember how important it is to allow others to critically think for themselves rather than clipping their wings, as you said.
00:09:59.130 --> 00:10:13.374
We can wonder why we are not soaring with the eagles and surrounded with turkeys when we become the solutionizer, as a leader that is always giving unsolicited advice and solutions to every problem.
00:10:13.374 --> 00:10:29.404
Angel, I'm glad that stuck with you, because it was a problem I had for most of my career never giving my people the space to leverage their autonomy, their agency and their critical thinking, because I was always giving them answers.
00:10:29.404 --> 00:10:34.644
So folks give Mr Angel a shout out and also, when you get a chance, leave a comment.
00:10:34.644 --> 00:10:47.253
Leave a five-star review or a three-star review, whichever makes most sense to you, but when you leave me the comments, that's the ultimate, because then I get to shout you out and I actually know that somebody is listening just besides me.
00:10:49.921 --> 00:10:53.851
So he had a phrase there where he said discipline equals freedom, right, yep?
00:10:53.851 --> 00:11:02.955
And I think that's a good way to deal with when you come out of the structure of the army, because the discipline gives you the flexibility to do what you need to do.
00:11:02.955 --> 00:11:08.167
It allows you to try stuff and we've done some stuff, so you got a little bit of courage as well.
00:11:08.167 --> 00:11:10.351
You know, to try stuff you haven't done.
00:11:10.351 --> 00:11:13.889
I think that's a perfect fitting.
00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.427
Discipline equals freedom, yeah.
00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:20.557
And the phrase is a little counterintuitive, right?
00:11:20.557 --> 00:11:29.423
Oh yeah, sometimes, discipline being this rigid, how should say caste situation, yeah, but it's really not no, no it's?
00:11:29.423 --> 00:11:35.634
It sets the conditions to be free and grow and learn and experiment and try.
00:11:35.634 --> 00:11:37.741
Yeah, I wish I knew that back in my 20s.
00:11:37.881 --> 00:11:42.388
Oh right, I'm glad I didn't have an ip iPhone in the internet when I was 20.
00:11:45.732 --> 00:11:52.510
So, speaking of the iPhones in the internet, I mentioned it at the introduction that you and I connected via LinkedIn.
00:11:52.510 --> 00:11:53.801
What was that like?
00:11:53.801 --> 00:12:00.510
What led you to begin posting and engaging on social media?
00:12:00.510 --> 00:12:01.873
That's a good question.
00:12:03.115 --> 00:12:05.788
Yeah, going back to that idea of discipline equals freedom.
00:12:05.788 --> 00:12:15.785
I was surprised I could get up and give a speech, presentation, training, and when I went to write my book I felt I had some imposter syndrome.
00:12:15.785 --> 00:12:28.208
Right, the only way to get over that is to get doing it and do more of it, because I know I really believe what I've been posting, because it challenges the status quo a little bit.
00:12:28.208 --> 00:12:37.788
So it's one thing to get up in front of a group of people and speak, but you start posting and putting it out there and it's out there for the world to see and it's out there forever.
00:12:37.788 --> 00:12:39.926
But I was surprised.
00:12:39.926 --> 00:12:40.822
I did not expect.
00:12:40.822 --> 00:12:42.528
Where did that imposter syndrome come from?
00:12:42.528 --> 00:12:43.581
Look over here, needle it.
00:12:43.581 --> 00:12:45.163
Hey, what if they don't like it?
00:12:45.163 --> 00:12:54.956
And so you just start posting and then you get some people saying, hey, yeah, spot on, thanks for saying this and for bringing it up, and that kind of thing.
00:12:54.956 --> 00:13:01.503
And so I want to, as I transition, I do a lot of site work, which is good.
00:13:01.503 --> 00:13:05.789
There's a lot of safety speakers who aren't doing so much site work and they disconnected from their same.
00:13:05.789 --> 00:13:08.914
With writers, they get disconnected from the people they're trying to influence.
00:13:08.914 --> 00:13:12.403
Now I do, probably in my business I do.
00:13:12.403 --> 00:13:18.735
Probably 80 to 90% of my business revenue is from doing site work out in these construction projects.
00:13:18.735 --> 00:13:24.381
Currently my clientele is all oil field industrial construction, is all oil field industrial construction.
00:13:24.402 --> 00:13:32.732
And what I'm hoping to do is with the book and again, why I publish so much on LinkedIn is to start doing leadership workshops for the front line.
00:13:32.732 --> 00:13:34.395
That's kind of my target audience.
00:13:34.395 --> 00:13:43.990
That's why the subtitle in the book is it's Leadership and Safety at the Sharp End, because we've got there's some excellent leadership workshops and stuff out there.
00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:49.212
But their target audience seems to be middle management, upper management and you know what.
00:13:49.212 --> 00:13:55.048
And we often in industry and I think it's in all industries we kind of set people up to fail.
00:13:55.048 --> 00:14:03.626
When we take a guy or a girl who's excellent at their craft, hey, we're going to make that the supervisor Boom, we move them up to the supervisor, give them no training.
00:14:03.626 --> 00:14:04.629
They fail dismally.
00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:11.562
So I want to start doing some of that.
00:14:11.581 --> 00:14:14.229
The book is written as a bit of a hand guide, more than just a lecture or anecdotes and stuff.
00:14:14.229 --> 00:14:18.024
It's got stories in it but it's got exercises in it and so nice.
00:14:18.024 --> 00:14:23.466
My plan is to use that and do some half day or one day workshops and do some follow-up.
00:14:23.466 --> 00:14:30.125
I think that's also a missing link with people that take some leadership workshops, especially new leaders there's no follow-up afterwards.
00:14:30.125 --> 00:14:41.826
Some coaching and that was, I think, one of the biggest things I got out of the army was when you take a leadership course and you move off to the back to the unit, there's always somebody coaching you To continue the thread of that learning.
00:14:41.826 --> 00:14:52.488
Yeah, exactly, so I'd like to do some of that and then keep doing some job site work so you stay connected with the audience you're trying to influence and then move them along.
00:14:53.481 --> 00:14:56.890
So when you say site work, what does that look like?
00:14:59.461 --> 00:15:01.809
Right now it's up in the oil and gas installations.
00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:08.831
I'm doing some work at a gas plant right now and they're getting ready to drill into a salt cavern and do some cavern storage.
00:15:08.831 --> 00:15:16.822
So instead of having tanks up on the ground, they have these salt caverns that are sealed and they're down 2,000 meters into the ground.
00:15:16.822 --> 00:15:24.369
I was working up at another site further north where they take sulfur, which is a byproduct of processing oil and gas.
00:15:24.369 --> 00:15:25.932
They make it so it's safe to transport.
00:15:25.932 --> 00:15:33.144
It's all industrial construction, some of it's new construction, some of it's modifying an existing facility and that kind of thing.
00:15:33.144 --> 00:15:36.586
I go up and help out with hazard assessments.
00:15:36.586 --> 00:15:39.647
If there's incidents, we do incident investigations see what actually happened.
00:15:39.647 --> 00:15:41.453
I do a lot of coaching.
00:15:41.453 --> 00:15:43.883
Instead of doing safety rules, I work with the supervisors.
00:15:43.883 --> 00:15:51.333
Rules is part of it, but I work with the supervisors on how to be leaders and make their work site safe, so that you're not just doing checkbox.
00:15:51.333 --> 00:15:52.134
Yeah, we've got this.
00:15:54.322 --> 00:16:09.061
We've got that hazard assessment stuff, so what surprises or awakenings have you had?
00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:12.802
in working with leaders and helping them understand their responsibility or contributions to the safety mindset.
00:16:12.802 --> 00:16:16.044
I think some of the most successful work I've had doing that is changing the mindset of being in charge.
00:16:16.044 --> 00:16:23.350
It's not that you're in charge, as you have people under your charge that you have to take care of and make sure they get home.
00:16:24.309 --> 00:16:25.331
So what's the difference?
00:16:25.331 --> 00:16:26.692
I love this.
00:16:27.072 --> 00:16:27.991
You're responsible for them.
00:16:27.991 --> 00:16:30.813
One of the first things to do is I do a lot of talk.
00:16:30.813 --> 00:16:35.336
I even have a chapter in the book about saying stop saying safety is number one, because it's not.
00:16:36.057 --> 00:16:38.501
Oh, whoa, whoa, oh the horse.
00:16:38.884 --> 00:16:40.428
I get a lot of people going what?
00:16:40.428 --> 00:16:52.827
And it's not that you don't want anyone to get hurt, but the company is doing some new construction on an existing facility so they can make more money.
00:16:52.827 --> 00:16:59.466
The contractors got the job so they can make more money, and the workers they do the job so they can pay the rent and fill the mortgage or the freezer.
00:16:59.466 --> 00:17:01.311
And it's okay to say that we're there to make money.
00:17:01.311 --> 00:17:19.666
You got to get past this nonsense of saying safety is number one, because as soon as you say that and schedule's pushed and something goes behind, and then we start eroding that yes, and so I think I have some impact, because a lot of safety people won't say that right, right, oh yeah.
00:17:19.666 --> 00:17:23.155
And when you're the safety guy and you're coming up and you say, stop saying that.
00:17:23.766 --> 00:17:28.497
One of the things I try to say a lot is when you're a leader, you can't talk your way to something you behaved your way into.
00:17:28.497 --> 00:17:31.614
So you've got to get out there and you've got to connect.
00:17:31.614 --> 00:17:34.934
You've got to see what the drivers are with your workers and see what's going on with their head.
00:17:34.934 --> 00:17:37.028
Have they got a sick one at home?
00:17:37.028 --> 00:17:38.011
Are they present?
00:17:38.011 --> 00:17:45.506
Right, yep, right, yep.
00:17:45.506 --> 00:17:46.692
So that's what I mean about when they're in your charge.
00:17:46.692 --> 00:17:47.355
Your job is to take care of them.
00:17:47.355 --> 00:17:49.345
You don't have to teach them how to be a pipe fitter, a welder, an electrician or a plumber.
00:17:49.345 --> 00:17:50.607
They are already there.
00:17:50.607 --> 00:17:51.609
They're the craftsmen.
00:17:51.609 --> 00:17:53.013
Just get out of their way.
00:17:53.013 --> 00:17:54.497
Let them get to it.
00:17:54.497 --> 00:17:58.269
Break down the barriers so they can get their work done right.
00:17:58.349 --> 00:18:10.816
Yes, so I heard the heard one friend of mine say here's the deal my teams install teams out there, the vehicles on the road and they need to get to where we need to get.
00:18:10.816 --> 00:18:16.576
My job as a manager and leader on the job site is to make sure they have all green lights.
00:18:16.576 --> 00:18:26.440
I was like, dude, yes, clear the road for them and let them do it and make sure you're taking care of them.
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:39.029
Yeah, and I think for me, like that the idea, because I spent a little bit of time as a safety professional like super small period of time and I asked myself the question of, like, what is safety?
00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:39.871
How do I define safety?
00:18:39.871 --> 00:18:41.733
Safety, how do I define safety?
00:18:41.733 --> 00:19:02.010
And I could only come up with it's taking care of people, being responsible for the people in my charge, to use your language right, being responsible for them and to them, to facilitate them doing what they needed to do and not getting hurt or injured or any yeah, like that's a given right.
00:19:02.070 --> 00:19:06.991
You want to make sure everyone gets home and not hurt and there was some jingle in their pocket.
00:19:06.991 --> 00:19:09.445
But those are given Safety.
00:19:09.445 --> 00:19:11.751
It's when you hear it.
00:19:11.751 --> 00:19:15.191
It's often no, we've got rules and stuff and we do for sure.
00:19:15.191 --> 00:19:17.413
But it's not about that, it's about the people.
00:19:18.045 --> 00:19:19.366
I had a bit of an epiphany.
00:19:19.366 --> 00:19:26.616
I was probably an intermediate safety person by now like experience, wise and knowledge and stuff about seven, eight years into my career.
00:19:26.616 --> 00:19:29.441
I've been doing it for god, 26 years.
00:19:29.441 --> 00:19:36.417
But uh, and I started to to not drink the kool-aid.
00:19:36.417 --> 00:19:55.715
I started questioning things like we would focus on injury rates and I always used used to wonder I don't think Bob the Builder cares whether your frequency rate for your injury is 0.1 for 100,000 man hours, but he probably cares about his friend Joe who might get hurt.
00:19:55.715 --> 00:20:07.434
So I stopped drinking the Kool-Aid and a turning point for me was this is going to sound crazy, but I was at the company who made five fatalities one year, right, oh my God.
00:20:07.625 --> 00:20:17.487
These job sites were all really remote, like way out into Northern Alberta, Northern Canada, and they were all single vehicle accidents they were.
00:20:17.487 --> 00:20:24.846
These guys were driving to the work sites or from the work sites on their way home and they were all ejected out of the vehicles.
00:20:24.846 --> 00:20:27.814
They were single vehicle rollovers guys tossed out.
