Episode 17: Pipe Fighting Plumbers Reunion

Doug: [00:00:00] I liked some of your headlines, what you had 

Jeremy: [00:00:02] a. What would you say the headlines sound good? I mean, I didn't listen to him, but, what was it? Porter John. A 

Doug: [00:00:11] port-a-potty philosophy. Oh yeah. I love 

Jeremy: [00:00:13] that. I love it. 

Jesse: [00:00:17] I did, I had to argue with my brothers about this, like, man, that's too old.

Doug: [00:00:22] It's so true. I construction

Jeremy: [00:00:24] swear. Everybody leaves 

Doug: [00:00:25] her feelings. 

Welcome back. Y'all we got a pretty sweet little episode for y'all. It's a bit of a party. It's a conversation between myself, Noah. Hermis Jeremy, Charles, and Doug Burchard. Uh, we all worked together back in the day. Well, I'll have a plumbing background. I spent a few years since we've hung out.

You want to get the feel of hanging around a bunch of older dudes reminiscing about the younger days and get a sense of the depth of relationships that can be formed out in the construction industry. It's almost like these guys have been spending every weekend together for the past 10 years. that's a function of the special, long lasting relationships that, that are formed working out on the job site, uh, sweating together, customed together.

growing and learning together. So hope you enjoy the show.

Jesse: [00:02:51] Yall that humidity is not good, it's not good for the dew. 

Well, first off who hasn't listened to the podcast. 

Doug: [00:03:03] All right here, Doug. I mean, I think I got very, I might turn it on one day for, I think where your very first one, when it came across my Facebook, 

Jeremy: [00:03:15] that's probably what I watched too, man, to be honest, you're full of shit. I think I just know you're doing bad ass shit.

So I just, I just assumed that that's the case. Nope. 

Doug: [00:03:28] I liked some of your headlines, what you had 

Jeremy: [00:03:31] a. What would you say the headlines sound good? I mean, I didn't listen to him, but what was it? Porter John. A 

Doug: [00:03:40] port-a-potty philosophy. Oh yeah. I love 

Jeremy: [00:03:42] that. I love it. 

Doug: [00:03:45] It's so true. I construction

Jeremy: [00:03:51] swear. Everybody leaves 

Doug: [00:03:52] her feelings. 

Jeremy: [00:03:53] Right. 

Doug: [00:03:56] So where are you at Jeremy? You're like your office or 

Jeremy: [00:03:58] you at some restaurant or? Nah, nah, I mean, I'm on that PM money now. So I got a little studio downtown, 

Doug: [00:04:07] downtown. 

Jeremy: [00:04:08] I mean, it looks nice. That's what I was. Yeah. The can factory, you know, damn south town. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I just, just to give you a heads up though, I, I frequently changed locations.

So you might see that 

Doug: [00:04:24] God 

Jesse: [00:04:26] is the maintenance man.

All right. When we got on the call, we got Noah Hermis Doug Burchard and Jeremy, Charles, how did we all come together? 

Doug: [00:04:39] TD industries to sum it up, I guess. 

Jeremy: [00:04:42] long story, 

Long story, but, but that sums it up.  

Jesse: [00:04:48] Who met? Who first?

Jeremy: [00:04:49] Well, I meant, you mean you go way back. Oh, that's 

Jesse: [00:04:52] right. We, we went to high school together. 

Jeremy: [00:04:54] As far as everybody else, I, I met Nolan and Doug at TD for sure. 

Noah: [00:04:59] It's little sweethearts, right? 

Jeremy: [00:05:00] Jesse had a lot of high school sweethearts.

Jesse: [00:05:02] I don't 

Noah: [00:05:02] know when I officially met Doug. I know it was prior to, Pearl. 

Doug: [00:05:07] You were in the bridge team when we met working for. 

Jesse: [00:05:11] Brad 

Doug: [00:05:11] to get the guys. Yeah, there you 

Jesse: [00:05:12] go. 

Doug: [00:05:13] They were teaching you how to low fall. I remember 

Noah: [00:05:15] that. 

Jesse: [00:05:15] Yeah. That's it. Well, I don't think they were teaching him.

He likes, he came X expert level slacker.

Noah: [00:05:24] That's why you want it, right 

Jesse: [00:05:26] that was Doug. That wanted to, I was just trying to support Doug shit. Yeah. 

Doug: [00:05:32] I did ask for you 

Jesse: [00:05:33] now I think half of us, Doug and Noah y'all are with TD industries. Y'all are both superintendents. Yup. Correct? Yup. Noah's brand new. How long have you been superintendent Noah?

three weeks. Oh, damn. So fresh 

Doug: [00:05:52] yeah. His name was taken out of the hat. 

Jesse: [00:05:55] Further evidence of the labor crisis that we're seeing.

Jeremy: [00:06:02] That's how you get your promotions.

Doug: [00:06:10] Yeah. And so true vacuum that's for sure. We're moving people up and not filling the void 

Jesse: [00:06:15] and that's rough.  Hell no, you were an apprentice, Doug. You and I think we're both foreman when we met Noah and Jeremy was an apprentice back then too. Yeah did we ever work on the same product? No, I 

Jeremy: [00:06:28] think so. I'm trying to think of years, right? I want to say in 2008 is when I went to go work for TD.

And at the time you had just made superintendent. Yeah. And then, and then I went to go work with I think Rob Todd is on that south side dental facility so I worked with him for a little bit, and then I was fortunate enough to end up on Doug's crew at Palo Alto.

Doug: [00:06:54] we worked at some military job to, we were doing chilled 

Jeremy: [00:07:00] water. Oh yeah, we did that at Lackland. Yeah. What was that 

Doug: [00:07:04] laughing? Yeah, 

Noah: [00:07:05] Fort Sam 

Doug: [00:07:06] or Sam, maybe I can't man. Jesse was super on that as well. 

Jeremy: [00:07:10] So you were brand new. Super is what it was. 

Noah: [00:07:13] Jesse got to see internal affairs and everything on that job it was that, that gym job we were remodeling they arrested you at the front gate or something. Oh yes. 

Jesse: [00:07:24] That was 

Noah: [00:07:24] 360.   

Jesse: [00:07:26] You know what we were all on that job to do 

Doug: [00:07:29] that job.

And I think Noah finished it up. I think I might've went.  To the city base right after that. And Noah finished it. 

Jesse: [00:07:38] Jeremy was there. He got all pissed off because he didn't want to cut the pipe in the gym. A certain link. 

Jeremy: [00:07:45] You remember? Oh, that was at Fort Sam gym. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.  

Doug: [00:07:49] It's straight active during the whole project. 

Jeremy: [00:07:52] I remember that I mean, that was probably right. If I didn't want to cut it, then I, I, I was for a reason. 

Jesse: [00:07:59] Yeah.

So three of us on the call or journeymen, what were you again? Jeremy? 

Jeremy: [00:08:05] It was a super apprentice. I don't think they have those anymore, but

I was like, skip journeymen, master, super

lots 

Doug: [00:08:17] of potential. Lots of 

Jeremy: [00:08:19] potentials. And if I would've stayed, I would've got, I would have hopefully got the journeymen and all that, hopefully. Well, yeah, maybe 

Doug: [00:08:28] you would've. 

Jesse: [00:08:28] Okay. So that was 2008. How long ago was that? 13 years ago. 

Doug: [00:08:33] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been TD for going on 15 now.

So, 

Jesse: [00:08:39] so Doug, I remember meeting you, there was a job off of Fredericksburg road. It was like a bank heritage bank. And I think you had just moved down from up north and it was your first summer working on the roof. Jerry Chavez was the foreman at that time. 

Doug: [00:08:56] Yeah. I w while I was working in bridge, when I first came to TD 

and working with Jared Chavez. I don't remember a bank, but first time I remember meeting you, Jesse was at the hotel in San Marcus and we were doing a big project on it.

Mitch Arnold was the super and Dan Thompson was the foreman on that project. And we kind of TD as a team all came together and I remember you being there. In fact, you were actually going to school at the time when you were working over there talking about becoming a super, 

Jesse: [00:09:28] did I want to be a super, 

Noah: [00:09:30] I don't know.

Doug: [00:09:31] I just, I just remember you on you were, yeah, you were moving on up. That was embassy suites. Embassy suites. Yeah. Yeah. That was my first year at TD 

Jesse: [00:09:42] and no. Where did I work with Noah at

Noah: [00:09:44] it had to have been bridge.

I think, I think we met prior 

Jeremy: [00:09:49] to stat. 

Noah: [00:09:51] And, and, and what was it? Walgreens downtown. 

Jesse: [00:09:56] Yeah. That was talk about milking a project. No, not the settlor SAC. What building was that? 

Noah: [00:10:03] Behind bill 

Jesse: [00:10:03] Miller's that's all I remember. . That's right. And so Jeremy, we went to high school together. You were what? That class of 96. 98 you saw the leadership qualities I had as a senior in high school.

And that's why you, you followed me. No, 

Jeremy: [00:10:17] no, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. It was a, the party. You had a party. Yeah. 

Noah: [00:10:22] Is that the one where he's helping you on the face? No, no, 

Jeremy: [00:10:27] it was it was just, I was a freshmen got to go to a party and yeah, so he was a bad day. Oh yeah.

Completely. Totally. Yeah. no. As a matter of fact, when we crossed paths, years later and he said he was doing this plumbing gig and I was once price. He was still alive too. That, that he had like a real job in a profession. And so it was kind of like that

it was more in that thing. 

Jesse: [00:10:50] Yeah. Yeah. I had a lot of fun. 

Jeremy: [00:10:52] You definitely got it together, man. I bought into the, when I talked to you and you asked me, I was working at USAA at the time. Don't remember that. 

Jesse: [00:10:59] I do. I do. We're 

Jeremy: [00:11:01] at Marty's house. I was, I wasn't real excited about  sitting in a cubicle and he goes, hello, you want to come do a real job?

I said, well, what is a real job? And that's how I ended up in plumbing. With you 

Doug: [00:11:13] guys and now you're back at the cubicle

 Jeremy: [00:11:17] Yeah. So now I am a project manager for a subdivision development company, utility site work. 

Noah: [00:11:24] That's good though. 

Jeremy: [00:11:25] Yeah, that's good. Let's keep it. Nobody's calling. Well, I get a lot of phone calls. Sure. But it's not a customer service. Like, 

Noah: [00:11:33] I mean, you, you beat me use, you went from apprentice to a PM.

I'm still trying to get there. 

Jeremy: [00:11:39] You don't want to be a PM. Liar.

Yeah. Well, that's a lot of school, so I just went to school route. Yeah. You guys got all that real experience. I went to school for a while. 

Jesse: [00:11:47] So on that, like you, what? You went to work for USA. They didn't went to school. Now your project manager. What was it that you wanted to do? Like back in the day when you were in high school or middle school, you just wanted to be close to me?

Jeremy: [00:12:02] No,  I joined the military and got our way I was traumatized.

Okay. So I joined the military, man. I don't know, you know, for a lot of years, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do and I guess that's why I joined the military. And then I wanted to be a pharmacist. And then I got into construction. Yeah. My, my story is crazy. I've always been around construction family so I always did a lot of residential stuff. And I didn't realize how much I enjoyed it and fell back in love with it after working with TDI and seeing something come from nothing and decided to just go back to school and see what I could get that construction and management degree.

So that's how I, I just chased it that way. I just went that way. I was always starting from behind you guys had all these years experience, man. So 

Doug: [00:12:49] yeah, but I didn't click my career either. It picked me, I just fell into farming. I was actually going to school for engineering back in Ohio state. Yeah, I did.

I did one, one trimester, whatever they called it back then and happened to get a day job working for a plumbing company. And I stopped the schooling and I was just making money. I was making enough money. I didn't need it anymore at the time. And I didn't like going to school. So I said, all right, let me, let me just keep on plumbing.

And they ended up sending me an apprenticeship program and. It kind of, like I said, picked me, it was not my, my job of choice. 

Noah: [00:13:33] Yeah. I guess nobody is in high school and was like, I want to be a plumber. 

Jeremy: [00:13:38] Right. Well, that's what Jessie's 

Doug: [00:13:40] trying to change. Exactly. And that's what we need. 

Jesse: [00:13:44] Like, we can't all be as sexy as me, but .

We all just have some stories that can motivate those students. I think Jeremy, you pointed it out,  like the, the cubicle life was you, you knew like you were frustrated with it. It wasn't enough. And me talking about construction or what it was like working out here was intriguing to you.

Jeremy: [00:14:09] For sure. I've, I've always in the military. I worked with my hands. I was a helicopter mechanic. And so I, I learned, well, that way, I like that hands-on, I mean, even working with Doug and Noah you know, if there was a task, I, I learned better getting in the thick of it and I know that sounds weird going to school and everything. I just got to do things. But that's what I've always liked about construction is, is that you're in it. And so, yeah, I, it was very intriguing. So when getting out there, being able to do that, that was cool.

Doug: [00:14:43] Yeah. There's a feeling of accomplishment at the end of the day when you work with your hands. Yeah, 

Jesse: [00:14:48] So Noah hesitated, right? Noah, you don't feel it everyday because you didn't really get enough done. Well, like if you would have installed more, you would know what we're talking about.

Yeah,

Noah: [00:15:03] that's probably right. That's probably 

Jesse: [00:15:05] true. It's a duck. You were at, you were at university at Ohio state. 

Doug: [00:15:12] It was a branch. There was a branch of Ohio state not the university. This was a Newark branch. Okay. Newark branch. It'd be like going to UTS here, basically. 

Jesse: [00:15:24] Got it. Got it. And so the, the classrooms had air conditioner and 

Doug: [00:15:31] conditioning girls.

Yep. Yep.

I really hadn't looked at it that way, but yeah.

Jesse: [00:15:44] And what was it about plumbing that helped you make that decision? 

Doug: [00:15:48] I don't know. I felt. A sense of belonging. And with, with the group of guys I was working with 

I enjoyed the guy that I was working with at the time. Hey, Robert.

And then we'd go to school apprenticeship school at nights twice a week. Yeah. And I don't know, I really don't know what brought me into it, but I didn't like going into college. I wasn't, I really wasn't a book guy, I was more of a hands-on. Yeah. 

Jeremy: [00:16:19] I guess there's clearing and some stuff like that.

They don't think we're going to do 

Noah: [00:16:24] dare me. If you take a call. 

Doug: [00:16:27] So he's trying to look important right now. 

Jesse: [00:16:30] These are project manager.

Jeremy: [00:16:33] Now. It's just my mom's just checking in.

Yeah. They'd be nice to you, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. 

Jesse: [00:16:43] Like shit. No, Jesse's on the call, you know, It ain't going to be nice. 

Doug: [00:16:48] Actually what I'm thinking about, I felt like it was easier than the book learning of college. That's what I felt. 

Jesse: [00:16:57] Was it because like when you say easier, was it because it was there wasn't anything to learn?

Or it was no, 

Doug: [00:17:05] there was learning. There was definitely a lot of but it was a different type of learning. I don't know how to explain it, but rather than just looking at a book, reading a book and learning out of the book, this is learning with hands-on back to what Jeremy was saying. And it just felt, felt more encouraging to me, 

Jeremy: [00:17:28] I guess.

Oh, good. I know, I know exactly what you mean, man. I can relate to that for sure. 

Jesse: [00:17:33] How about, you know, wind ski and all we can, y'all see Noah's face because all I see is his beautiful lips. 

Noah: [00:17:40] I think he's you broke up. I didn't hear you. 

Jesse: [00:17:43] So, all we see is your lips. We don't see your whole face. 

Jeremy: [00:17:47] Well, we see an area that should have an Adam's apple, but we're not seeing one either.

Jesse: [00:17:52] So the question is  what were you thinking your career would be back in middle school or high school? So did they, do they have high schools in Honda's? 

Noah: [00:18:03] Actually, I didn't go to school in Hondo. I graduated from

Jesse: [00:18:06] Oh, that's right. Dehenis 

Noah: [00:18:09] even smaller by the time I was a junior, I was already starting to work my way to get into the military. I was going into the Marines. My family is very heavily military so it was like, it felt normal to follow suit but late in my junior year, I wound up becoming a father of two from two different women. instantly had me thinking differently on nine 11 and all that stuff was going on and it was, am I going to come out of the military? Am I going to come back? I'm going to be alive.

And I didn't want to leave my future children. So I decided. To hang back and at that point was all right. I need to grab, I joined, I didn't get a job. I got two miles to feed, including my own. And my stepfather worked for Ferguson for many years and knew a lot of people with GD.

when he knew I needed to get a job, he stuck his neck out there and said, Hey, my boy needs a job. And next thing you know, they I'm interviewing at TD and they're like, yeah, we'll take you. started there TD put me in school and just kept pursuing it.

Jesse: [00:19:23] So you completed the four years of apprenticeship. 

Noah: [00:19:26] Yep. Graduated from ABC. 

Jesse: [00:19:28] How old were you when you started 

Noah: [00:19:29] with TV? I was 18. Nine. 

Doug: [00:19:34] Perfect. Awesome. 

Jesse: [00:19:36] Have you, you haven't quit yet?

Have you? 

Noah: [00:19:39] Nope. I'm not quit.

Jesse: [00:19:48] And so you're. How old are you? 35. 

Noah: [00:19:50] 35 now. 

Jesse: [00:19:52] Wow. 17 years. Almost 

Doug: [00:19:55] 17 years yet he can be a life for their kids. Good hope you're putting in the Aesop. 

Noah: [00:20:00] Yeah, I am. But my stupidity when I was younger I didn't do that.

Doug: [00:20:10] It was back then. 

Noah: [00:20:11] I didn't, I didn't, because I was like, what? I was paycheck to paycheck. Right. I had mouths to feed and then two, the way I was thinking stocks go up and down all the time. I wasted my money. I ain't got a risk mine on that. So I didn't gamble and well, it is what it is, right.

Jesse: [00:20:33] Yeah. But did it, you invested in that, that super sweet Ford focus. 

Noah: [00:20:39] That was bad bitch right there.

That was top of, 

Jeremy: [00:20:49] yeah. I don't know, man, but it was 

Doug: [00:20:52] nice. That could have been nice that you some money right there. 

Noah: [00:20:56] That's what happens when you're young and dumb and your priorities are out of whack, right? 

Jesse: [00:21:00] Oh yeah. I spent plenty of money on attorney's fees that I could've put into stock. So I judge it oh man. So you entered at 18. How old were you, Doug, when you started in? 

Doug: [00:21:16] I was 18 as well. I mean, I was right out of high school. I had started college, like I said earlier and was just getting some cashflow with working for this plumbing company that actually came looking for me I was in school for drafting in high school and that's where I graduated the school that I went to, it was like a JVC. They call it a joint vocational school, what it was. And they have contacts with people after you graduate. And this plumbing company was looking for somebody to help with estimating.

So I basically, when I first started with this, I was going to school for engineering, working at this plumbing company called Houston plumbing. has nothing to do with Houston, Texas. It was the last name. And they had me working in the office doing, helping to do takeoffs. So basically all I was doing was takeoffs.

They would do all the data, but I was getting linear footage and all that. And eventually they needed some help in the field. They put me in the field and the rest is history. I started apprenticeship program through them and I never, never got out of it. So. And I was 18, 19 years old. So 

Jesse: [00:22:32] you were in your twenties, Jeremy?

Jeremy: [00:22:34] Oh yeah. I was brand new  at 27. Okay. 

Jesse: [00:22:40] So we've all I was at TD. I was there for 17 years. So be careful Noah, the 17 year itch around. That's right. About the time I bailed on y'all and we touched a little bit about the Aesop and, and I think it's important to talk about the employee ownership aspect of TD, because Doug I'm, I bet you've worked for a few companies and Noah doesn't know Noah's only worked for one.

Yeah. Yeah. How, how was that different? How was TD different than a lot of other companies. 

Doug: [00:23:15] So, I mean, luckily I have worked for some good companies. I know there's some bad ones there. Actually, the first bad one I worked for was when I came first, came to Texas moving down here. , I can't remember the name of the company, but they were not, they must've been, yeah, they were just wanting to get the job done.

They didn't care safety. Wasn't a big thing. We had, and I remember on the job site, two of the lead guys on this project were towards the end of the day. We're cutting up copper and taking it to scrap it. And they were just reordering more copper said, we need more confidence. It sounded like, and I wasn't, and I was just new to Texas.

I was like, what the hell is going on? And I was not about to be a snitch or I was just going through my day. And then luckily that company laid me off as a project was finishing. And that's when I came to TD. TD is definitely a great company to work for. it's employee owned you know, you get parts of the profits as long as you are putting in Aesop.

So from what I'm understanding of what really, I mean, they're, they do give out some bonuses, but the majority of your profit sharing is through the ESOP. If you don't put money into, you're not getting a part of the pie. So but it's still a benefit and as well as the 401k. So if you're at least putting in a 401k.

They're matching that as well. Like you said, there's companies out there that are taking all the profits and not even paying you well just making money off of you. 

Jesse: [00:24:59] What about the culture 

Doug: [00:25:00] it's an open book culture. it's an open conversation right there and every meeting, voice your opinion as well as safety, you've got a really good safety culture. If you need something for safety we'll get it.

And in fact, we demand it to get it. We don't just say we don't ask you if you need it. We tell you need it. So yes. 

Jesse: [00:25:22] Whether you like it or not, or whether you 

Doug: [00:25:23] like it or 

Jesse: [00:25:24] not. That's okay though. Like some of us need that, man. We talked about it this morning at breakfast. there are some protocols in place now that I would not, absolutely not violate.

And if I saw people violating it, I would like stop this. Isn't cool. You're at risk. But 15, 20 years ago, I didn't think about shoring in the ditch. Right. I just went and got in the ditch. I didn't think about leading edge and worried about working near the edge of a roof. I just, hell I would go hang off the edge just to see how cool it looked from way up top, you know?

Doug: [00:26:03] I think that's the industry as a whole though across the nation or across the world, probably safety has become more and more a focus that I had when I first started, because I do remember not having any safety programs at all I mean, I remember standing on top of an A-frame ladder at the very top because that's the only ladder I had to reach where I needed to go.

And there was no safety. I mean, I didn't realize what I was doing really wrong at the time. Right. I felt like I was pretty well on my feet and balanced, but man, anything could have knocked me off. But as I think as accidents have happened over the years that safety comes into play and we've evolved into this safety first culture now in construction as a whole and production kind of falls in right behind that.

Jesse: [00:26:57] So the three of you have children all three or all four of us have careers in construction. What do you think about your kids working in construction?

Doug: [00:27:09] Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. It's definitely a lucrative and stable, depending on which type of construction you get in, but it is very stable career. 

Jeremy: [00:27:22] Yeah, for sure. I second that I wouldn't mind at all. 

Jesse: [00:27:25] How about you and the Nowinsky 

Noah: [00:27:26] I don't, I don't have no offense to it.

Right. If they want to get into it, that's, that's great. I'm just worried about If they could handle it, they're relying on technology and stuff. And technology is starting to come around right. For construction, but there is still manual labor that needs to happen.

And I'm worried in that aspect, if they can handle the manual labor. That's the only thing that would. Bother me or worry me about the construction future. 

Jesse: [00:27:57] So is that like for your own kids or kids in general? 

Noah: [00:28:01] I've got a lot of feedback for mothers, you know, that have children around mine, my age they're more technology, they don't like to do actual labor, like take out the trash, which takes effort. We can't just click a button and it gets done. Right. I've heard it a lot. I mean, it may not be as bad as I'm thinking. I know it's probably not getting any better.

Jesse: [00:28:25] What do you think about that? Doug? 

Doug: [00:28:26] I would think he's hit a good point there. There's easy, lazy money out there. I always kind of felt like people in sports were more cut out for skilled trade type. There there's like a 

Jeremy: [00:28:41] correlation there. Yeah. 

Doug: [00:28:43] I sports.

You, you had to work to get benefits or to when you know, you're working to win where computer generated stuff, you're really not breaking a sweat sports and brings you into that mindset. You know, you've got to break a sweat to accomplish something and you have that competitive nature and construction is very competitive it's always been one of my thoughts, but I don't know what you guys think. 

Jeremy: [00:29:11] I could see that. I guess I never made that connection, but it makes sense 

Jesse: [00:29:17] I think two things you know, doing digital stuff, like podcasts, there's nothing wrong with it. Does don't judge me?

 Question about the generation, this generation, digital, this generation doesn't want to work as hard. They don't make them like they used to. I think every generation has said that. 

Jeremy: [00:29:37] I don't know. I totally see Noah's point.

I do believe all of that, but I think it's, it's our fault too. Like my kids. And I feel like it's, it's because, you know, I'm, I'm chasing this and I'm doing this. And I went to school late. And, and so maybe some of the things that I was doing when I was young, I'm not, we just make it easy. It's, it's easy to give them the crap man.

And, and let them consume their time a certain way. So there's, there's definitely some fault on our part, but you know, we didn't have a choice back then. We didn't have this stuff. So where you say it's every generation I don't, I don't know. Right? Because now they're in their rooms playing the games.

When I didn't have a choice back then to go outside and play baseball, play football, do all that sports, Tufts sweat stuff that makes it not scary to get in a ditch. Right. Hang off the edge of a roof because we were jumping off the roof anyway, you know? Exactly. 

No, I can't imagine my kids. I think they're extremely capable. It's just, they've never been asked to do it. Yeah. 

Doug: [00:30:44] It's the mental ability because there's a mental toughness that you need to go out there and sweat and accomplish something. 

Jesse: [00:30:53] Well said.

Jeremy, you touched on this generation.

I don't think any of us has done a study of an entire generation. Right? Like we're talking about the people in our lives that we know directly. Sure. And we've created that condition. Right. So if I think about my baby brother, Renee, I, I protected him and I did some things to keep him comfortable and, and not I mean the dude six, something with arms that are like five feet long.

He could have been a baller and I could be retired right now, but he was not into athletics. And we, you know, for different reasons that was okay for some of us, meaning my mom, not me. And what, the first time he got a job working at TV, it was a sheet metal hand. And I think he worked there like six weeks, maybe two months.

And he quit because he didn't have that mental toughness  and I think that's natural, right? As a parent, you want to, you want to take care of, you want them to have, have a better life than you did and all that stuff. But Jeremy, back in our day there, we were like the Sega generation, the Nintendo generation.

Jeremy: [00:32:02] No, no, yes, yes, yes. But only if you could afford it, what exactly. 

Doug: [00:32:11] My generation was a target. So they brought her out for a while. So the video games is not the only reason this is a problem, but there's, but every generation does make life easier for the future generation. Right. We're just constantly making it easier and easier.

It all starts from the damn remote control to the TV. Right. That's 

Jeremy: [00:32:32] one aspect 

Doug: [00:32:33] we made, we made it easy and we went once. The next thing to be easy, 

Jeremy: [00:32:37] you throw the social media stuff in that. No, we had the games as one thing, and now you've got, now you got Instagram stars and people making money off YouTube, and then everybody wants to do it.

I can totally see it's a challenge, you know, getting people to probably join the military, who's going to join the military, probably a bunch of poor kids I think it just, it's going to continue to get harder and harder. I admire and appreciate what you're trying to do because I think you're absolutely right, man.

And that's something I didn't buy into maybe way back when Knight construction, you can have. A good life, man, good money  and feel good at the end of every day, as long as you're as productive as Doug and not Noah. So I do, I do see it right perspective was a little bit different as somebody that came into the trade and was playing catch up against guys my age.

Right. So you had Sam, you had Charlie you know, you, a couple of years older, you guys were advancing and I was an apprentice and I, I think I would have caught on and I think maybe caught up at some point, but education was just my way to kind of play catch up. And so that's why I went to school and did that whole bit

if my kids, you know, my daughter, I went to school late, right. There's a bunch of young women construction science and management degrees joining the field out there from . I think of what I do now, there's I think at least two women that are doing utility work in the ditches and, and the hard work and putting in the time and who knows right from that level up.

 But yeah, I think about my kids I don't know. I like to think they got some of that toughness, but they haven't been asked. they haven't been challenged in that way yet. 

Jesse: [00:34:25] Who's, who's responsible for setting that challenge, 

Jeremy: [00:34:28] It sucks because you're right. You want to, you want to take care of them and I'm sure Doug, and know, I think about that all the time too, but, you know, going off to college and being alone by yourself the first time, you know, You know, that's tough in it's way. And so 

Noah: [00:34:41] I think what plays him part two whether we think about it at the time it's kind of unintentionally.

We're like, man really want to push our kids to do what I'm doing? The mental views? I say abuse, but the mentality that we have to go through, the physical abuse, we go through Jesse, wasn't that bad. Noah, come on. I'm wondering if that was in the back of my mind. And that was something that I was intentionally trying to avoid towards my children.

Right. 

Jeremy: [00:35:10] That's 

Noah: [00:35:11] fair, but not realizing it right 

Jesse: [00:35:14] So the other thought I had about the whole subject and to your point, Doug, about students being involved in athletics you know, the sweat factor to accomplish something like yeah. Which is really delayed gratification, right? You practice your ass off to go play for 15 minutes. Yeah, Doug, I mean Noah and, and Jeremy, we all played baseball.

I think you played, played baseball too. 

Doug: [00:35:41] Didn't you duck? Actually, I played baseball. The highest state branch played baseball tomorrow. Younger age and played football. Yeah, I played and of course, track, I was big on track more than anything, but yeah, I definitely had the sports 

Jesse: [00:35:56] background. Right. And so we become conditioned to, like you said no, I thought you were going to start crying about the mental abuse and the physical abuse.

Noah: [00:36:07] You were my mentor, 

Doug: [00:36:09] but yeah, you learn that in sports too. It's how to handle that mental push, that abuse. I mean, no pain, no gain. Right. We've always heard that. So 

Jeremy: [00:36:19] is that old school construction vibe to mandate, you know, dig, scan, you gotta be tough. And I didn't have an issue with Dick.

I came from the military when I, by the time I got to TD that's the world, man. You gotta be able to take. Comments, you know, like shots at each other. It's all in fun. I don't know.

There's no animosity. That's the nature of construction, you know? And like you say, not only is safety changing, but I think that atmosphere is changing a little bit too

Jesse: [00:36:44] and we got to adapt, right?

Like things are changing. We've got to shut up. I mean, when, when I was out there with the all and recruiting people, they would say like, what are you looking for? the schools, when we started that internship program I said, I don't want straight a students. I want the kids. Like if they're in band, if they're in athletics, if they're in some kind of extracurricular activity that requires them to get up earlier and be at school, More than the rest of the kids or stay after school is more than the rest of the kids.

And it's a team function. I don't care what their grades are. If they got to that, that's what we need. Absolutely. 

Back to the social media thing, because things like the social contact that we can have now does not require being outside of the house and doing social things as a group, the ability to work in a team is getting severely impacted that like I can do all this soft stuff isolated in my room. So I don't develop the skills of working on a team and talking smack and taking the jabs because I've been in this bubble. Yeah. 

Jeremy: [00:37:59] This little cocoon. Sure. And I don't think this Corona thing is going to help any right. Pick it up, look it up.

Everybody working. I mean, I wanted to meet and do this in person, but you're like, no, let's stay and do our little laptop thing and the team meetings 

Doug: [00:38:13] you're right. Society as a whole has become more sensitive and it does affect the construction as well because everybody's sensitive.

Jeremy: [00:38:22] construction probably could have used the little soft thing right. 

Doug: [00:38:25] A little bit. And I think we have 

Jeremy: [00:38:27] definitely have, I just say that getting women involved in construction, you know, and that's, that's not a bad thing, but there was probably some adapting that needed to happen on the construction site in order to allow for that to happen so I think probably a good thing, I do see what you're saying. And I do see that argument with softening generally speaking and that whole barefoot, 

Noah: [00:38:50] well, some of those women that I used to work for in the construction industry there, they were tougher than you Germany.

Jeremy: [00:38:57] That's probably, probably true our hard tag against that. not, not. I saw that when they were, when you were giving them left taxes, I saw that

cut, cut that out.

Indeed. 

Doug: [00:39:15] This conversation is going the wrong direction.

Jeremy: [00:39:24] And he was the only adult involved in this conversation.

Jesse: [00:39:27] Tell me what y'all think about this. I agree that maybe we're getting softer than, than what rather we're getting softer at a rate faster than I'm comfortable with now on that. No I also feel there was a, a measure of respect that was lacking in our industry.

Very true. And so like we're starting to get, improve that or close the gap on the, the respect situation. And at the same time, the sensitivity thing is also okay. Is it two separate things or is it the same thing? 

Noah: [00:40:01] Hmm. Good question.

Doug: [00:40:03] I don't think you had to be sensitive to respect somebody. You can be hard on somebody and respect them at the same time. You just pushing them you know, to be greater, to be better 

Jeremy: [00:40:14] you think it has to do with the demographic of society that construction workers come from, is that where that lack of respect comes from?

I look at the military and you had to be tough and thick skinned and the whole bit, but there was still structure and accountability for when you got disrespectful. You don't really have, have that old school in construction because it's not the military, obviously. Right. So did that have something to do?

And so now softening allows for respect, but. I just wonder if, if that lack of respect, I feel like I've worked with a lot of guys even to this day where with the field where we're at and there's some hard assets, tough dudes, man.

And they're great at what they do, but they're not gonna easily fall in lie. They're just not, and that's construction generally speaking, but in today's construction, you can't really have that, even though you kind of feel like we want that and need that sometimes it's not gonna work as we continue to progress.

Jesse: [00:41:18] Yeah. I feel you there's some old behavior that's ingrained into our industry. Right? You said tough and hard and old school. it's existed for a long time. So like I dug y'all off the three of you all, we've all dealt with this, right. You work with the superintendent or the general contractor that's, you know, got the gray hair and the leather phase they've been up there.

They'd been doing it for years and they're going to talk to you a certain kind of way. And it's like, okay. I like it. They're aggressive. They're well, maybe not you Jeremy, because, well, you're a hot shot. 

Jeremy: [00:41:53] I ain't going to handle it. I ain't gonna have that shit. Yeah, go ahead. 

Jesse: [00:41:56] Yall, well, I'll speak for myself.

I'll tolerate it more from an older person. Somebody that's got some decades on them, in the industry then from somebody my age or younger, like my age or younger, or even close to my age, like, hold on, bro. Like you don't have those years on you. I know you didn't live that life. We ain't going gonna, we ain't doing business this way.

 Back to the generational thing. How much of it is? Because that's just the way it was. 

Jeremy: [00:42:25] A lot of it was because of that, right? That was construction. While we leave that behind and the softening up thing, we're gaining respect because people are respecting probably authority and positions.

Maybe a little bit more than they used to in the past that old construction. even now as the PM, I would never go out there and bark at my superintendent on my foreman. Those guys have been doing it so much longer than I have. There's no way that I could talk to them like that. I would, I wouldn't do that out of respect.

Jesse: [00:42:56] But as apprentice, you were just smack talking apprentice. I know 

Jeremy: [00:43:02] you remember that. I don't remember it that way at all. Yeah,

no, I never 

Doug: [00:43:09] had any trouble with Jeremy. I fed him information. I mean, my idea of respect is coming together as a team for one goal. Sharing information the ones that don't respect are the ones that don't want to be on the team want to come in and go home as quick as possible.

They're not there for the end goal. They're just there for eight hours of their paycheck and they don't care about the end goal. I respect the ones that are there to help me get to the finish line. 

Jeremy: [00:43:42] Yeah. And I can say that I worked, I worked with Noah on one of his project. I worked with Doug on, on their projects.

I never had any problems with either one of them. And I think it would, it's easier to follow that tight than it is to follow a guy. Like, I don't know, maybe, maybe, maybe a Charlie sometimes, right? Yeah, no, Jeremy, you, 

Doug: [00:44:03] you always had, you always had questions. You were very. Curious about you didn't want to just do what we told you.

You wanted to know why we're doing it. And, and I liked that about you. I would explain whatever you needed to know and I'll tell him we got along. Well, 

Jeremy: [00:44:19] no, for sure. And I've worked with other people there at TD, you know, as an apprentice, you bounce around a little bit. And so that didn't, that didn't like that just, just go do it.

Yeah. And so I, that was never going to work for me, man. 

Noah: [00:44:33] Well, that planning the planning aspect that, me, Jesse and Doug were pushed probably helped educate you on how to understand when we went free plan drawings that planning led into why we were doing it.

 Probably helped out a lot. Cause I know dressy was all about plan, plan, plan, plan, plan. 

Jesse: [00:44:55] Well, I thought y'all wanted to do it at Pearl. I remember Doug saying like, Jess, we need to, we need to do this different kind of planning, build some spreadsheets. Was it that you done? 

Doug: [00:45:04] Yeah. Yeah, no. I wanted to spreadsheets because I never knew how to determine we have a task.

I had a hard time making the judgment on this should take a week to do, you know, I wanted some data to tell me, yeah, this should take a week to do. And that's kinda why we developed that.

Jesse: [00:45:24] We talked a little bit about technology as it relates to, to kids and not sweating. How about the level of technology that y'all are playing with now in the field? Did y'all ever expect that 

Doug: [00:45:37] I've embraced it, but I see a lot of value in it. Yeah. But I never saw it coming. 

Jeremy: [00:45:44] Yeah. I saw what was I saw at school when I was going through the program. Some of the programs that was out there, they introduced us briefly to a lot of these different stuff.

BIM building information modeling and Navis works and how HVC and plumbing, and you could, you know, look for conflicts and all these different things. And, and I, and of course I've relayed everything to past experiences like everybody. Right? So I had residential experience and wondered how it could be implemented there, but the cost in residential is probably not applicable, but TD I'm like, damn, I wonder if TD is going to get into this TDI and how it's going to fit and the direction they're going to move in.

So I don't work in those fields anymore. But man, I, I saw what was out there and if you guys are doing anything like that and it's pretty bad ass. 

Doug: [00:46:28] Yeah. It is awesome. The BDC team and we pretty much build the building before we even break ground. You know, we, we model it or we'd yeah.

I mean, we get maybe 80% there. You'll never get a hundred percent ordinated out, but it helps us a lot to see at least the layers of the work, the potential conflicts that's coming up. And we can look at them more in the field once we get to that position. But there's definitely huge benefits of pre modeling a project and then bringing in the tremble

so you don't have to pull string lines tape measure blown in the wind, trying to get a measurement in a wall the tremble, puts us right on the dot. 

Jesse: [00:47:17] I remember the first time Doug was introduced to the tremble. 

Noah: [00:47:20] Yeah. He was like in worry, he was fucking sweat.

And you as like February and when the first day tremble went out there, we were doing the pans on the first level of Emma on the new bill. And Doug, Doug told me like you, do you trust this? How do you feel about this? I forgot 

Jeremy: [00:47:44] all about that.

Jesse D 

Doug: [00:47:50] I remember Jesse always telling me trust the people 

Noah: [00:47:53] And he was like, man, I just, I don't know if I could trust it. And then he started, he started doing this whole, Hey Noah, hold, hold this tape. Then I mean, these hit, but I mean, what about the rest of them and to itself, trust the trimble,  

Jesse: [00:48:08] wasn't that 

Doug: [00:48:08] bad, right?

No, actually that project, that was a Pearl hotel, right? Yeah. I think, I think we hit damn there all, but three sleeves is only out of whatever, 600 sleeves we probably put in. Oh, we put way more than more than that. Yeah. But it was only three of them that was out of that old job. And then we had a very 

Noah: [00:48:29] impressed thousand 

Doug: [00:48:32] inserts.

Oh yeah it works as long as it's calibrated property, because there are issues with operators capabilities, and they don't get it calibrated properly or localized as they call it. And, and then all your measurements are wrong. So you, it is still good to pull that hard tape measure, verify one or two.

And then if they're good, they're getting the rest of it's good. 

Jesse: [00:48:58] Let a roll baby. So we started off way back where we met here's the question. So Jeremy. I don't know if you're looking at your Wiener or you're texting.

Why 

Noah: [00:49:08] do you go to him all the time? 

Jesse: [00:49:10] I mean, Noah, I forgot how sensitive you are. 

Jeremy: [00:49:17] You've been out of the superintendent role, bro. You still gotta play feelings and emotions. 

Jesse: [00:49:21] No speaking about speaking about sensitive and the new generation, right? Right. Noah, like we've known each other for a long time.

The four of us. What do you think about where each of us are at now? Meaning what do you think about where it Doug's out? Were you surprised? What have you learned from him? How has he impacted you? Same thing with Jeremy. 

Noah: [00:49:44] To start off, I mean, obviously with Doug when he first went into the superintendent role I didn't know until I think he was already in it for a year.

And I was kind of shocked. Because I knew that was your drive. Your drive was to make him a superintendent. And I know we're past conversations with Doug that he was very hesitant. He kept saying, no, I don't want that. No, I don't want that. now that he is, I mean, the amount of stuff that I learned from him yeah, I don't, I don't see him stopping 

I see him going further. He taught me a lot definitely double-checking cross-referencing. Not necessarily not to trust anybody, but to basically in your mind, you, no, it's right. Verifying. And you verify that there is no issue. He stressed that a lot towards me, especially on AMA and he always pushed that on me is, you know, we would finish something and get an inspection.

He's like, did you verify everything was right? And I'm like, shit I didn't, I was just trusting the guy. I's like, yeah, they got it done. It's right. But in the back of your mind, you don't know it's right until you verify as far as how to approach things and stuff and handle things is definitely some other aspects I learned from Doug. you too, Jesse. I would say the main thing is, you pushed on me, was plan, plan, plan, and get your paperwork done and, and, and put it on paper so you can see it. You can feel it, you can visualize it, and then you can push towards that. You needed to put it on paper so you can show it to your guys that they can understand it, what their expectations were.

and basically the

better for yourself to take the weight off of you. And kind of put it on the guys and let him take over.

As far as Jeremy, it was basically like, don't be a bitch. Just get it done. 

Jeremy: [00:51:55] I would say that to you a lot. My bad 

Noah: [00:52:00] from him is he was a hustler. It didn't matter if it was Noah. You're telling me to get in this ditch and it's way deeper water. And I needed to tie this line in. If I told him that it needed to get done, I can do it.

Well, most of the time I would get some negative feedback every now and then. And then it was more of, Hey, don't be a bitch. I would throw a ride back at him, but he had a drive, right. He had a drive that I saw and admired, even though I wasn't working with him very long.

I think we worked together maybe between two projects, a total of a year. But if I had something that came up and it needed to get done, he was the one I went to. I

Jeremy: [00:52:55] It's simple for me. I'm not surprised at all. 

Noah: [00:52:58] I'm confident. Not like difficult 

Jesse: [00:53:02] or what? 

Jeremy: [00:53:03] No, no, no, no. I I'm just gonna quicker, quicker. Yeah. Well, 

Doug: [00:53:08] I mean, remember the question. I mean, there's no way we went deep into that answer, so 

Jeremy: [00:53:13] yeah, not for me. It's no, not surprised at all, man, Noah, I expected to eventually be a superintendent.

God damn, man, you've been doing it since you're 18. You better.

And then, and Doug was always a bad-ass and easy to work for. And as long as he could get his head wrapped around the technology part, I see him I don't even know what's next. Where do you guys are gonna kill it? And then even you, Jesse got damn man. I mean, I, I don't know, I guess eventually your own Turner or drawers or one of them come.

So now, I mean, I will say that a lot, all my construction in the field, I've been super fortunate to be around good people that helped. And so I've tried to take as much as I can from, the time I had as little as it may have been. I mean, I was only at TD three years, but I feel like I was around some awesome people during that time.

So I've always taken that with me. And then you use that experience to compare against everywhere else you're at man. And it's hard not to do that when you're around a high guys. so that's my little take.

Doug: [00:54:17] Yeah. So mine would be a little short and sweet too, but yeah, no, I always knew he was gonna move up. he was more of a guy that wanted to get it done less on the Planning part of it, but he's learning to do the planning part of it. I mean, he would just push the guys, get it done, man.

He was always good for them and very knowledgeable learning, curious, and always learning, what he needs to know as well as Jeremy, Jared, pretty much the same thing. I know he didn't work that long with us, but when he did, like I said earlier, he was always curious. He wanted to know. So I'm not surprised about him being in his position because he was pretty smart kid and I knew he was going to continue to learn whatever he needed to, to, to grow.

And then Jesse, you always have talked about wanting to be a teacher and I, and that's kind of the role you've went into. So you've always been less of wanting to be. Involved in the, the day to day stuff, you'd rather be teaching for future generations to be prepared for the construction industry.

And, and that's kind of where you're your, what now? Lean process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In charge of lean processes, 

Jeremy: [00:55:39] something with some little podcast or something like that, right? Yeah, 

Doug: [00:55:43] yeah. Yes. Well, yeah. I mean it's lean processes is valuable to be taught and definitely in the construction 

Noah: [00:55:51] kind of making money, like the newer generation is trying to do all easy 

4 horsemen Conversation-20210524_110023-Meeting Recording: [00:55:55] shit.

Jesse: [00:55:55] We know it now. I mean, for me guys, like with Jeremy it's perseverance because you've been through some shit. Yeah. But personally, in what you've been through. That would have taken a lot of people offline, meaning they would have given up and, you know, played the victim card.

Yeah. And you've never done that. And you, and you continue pushing on you know, it's easy to stuff for me to start thinking about how, how hard my life is. Right. But having people like you in my life helped me say like, man, it ain't that bad. Like this really isn't that bad. I can deal with this.

Doug was, has always been, I mean, even at the beginning of this call, I'm like, man, do you guys think Doug's gonna get on the call? And no's like, yeah, of course Doug will be here. So like Doug's always been steady, dependable all the time and that's. You know, I haven't always had that quality and as, as an adult or even yet at all, but it it's, it's something to aspire to.

Right. When I think of people that I can depend on that are steady, like go-to people that I think of Doug and Noah, you know, no, the last time I did the last planner bootcamp thing there at the office, you blew my mind when you came in, you're like, dude I already knew this, this is the crap you've been forcing down my throat all this time. And like, it was funny, but you always had the knowledge. You always had the capability. you always had more like when we went to play well, when we went golf, didn't you start golfing with us.

Like you hadn't golfed ever 

Noah: [00:57:39] before. Yeah. Cause I got, I got jealous because y'all three would come back like Monday and be talking about golf laughing and making jokes. So what y'all did during the round, I always had a curious for golf, with me being heavily sports, right. I was like, I want to try it. You know? And y'all were like, come on, just go on Craigslist and buy yourself a cheap ass set, come out  I think that's what's that right there is what locked us together.

Man, I had the time of my life,

Jesse: [00:58:13] but you came out, having never played and then like smoked all of us except maybe Doug, 

Doug: [00:58:21] his drive is reduced.

Jeremy: [00:58:22] Dry is driving 300 feet to the right. And it comes back to the lab. 

Jesse: [00:58:31] You've always had this kind of raw talent couple that with the last planner system boot camp that we were in. Like you've had that talent and, and what you've helped me appreciate is patience. Cause I used to get like fricking NOLA, like cut, but you got it or you're a superintendent now, you know?

And it's pretty. And so that helps me understand, like, just don't give up on everybody because people, people are taking in right. And providing some kind of value or something that will pay off for the individual in the future. Because like you said, Doug, I like teaching. I don't like getting rejected.

Well, when I'm teaching most of the time I'm getting rejected. Right. Cause people want to do things the way they've always done them and that's okay. But no, like you're a phenomenal example of, of the teaching. Taking root and then coming up and actually turn and helping somebody experience a higher quality of life.

Jeremy: [00:59:38] It's almost like you're saying if a God damn I'll never give up again. Cause I know if Noah got it, then anybody it's like a pretty way of saying that, but I got you. I got you. Yeah. That's the, 

Noah: [00:59:52] that's the 

Jesse: [00:59:52] concise way to say it. And then, as a group, we talked a little bit about it this morning at breakfast, you know, the comradery that we have, man, like I swear when Noah, you were texting and giving me shit, even though you didn't want to pay for my entry fee, I was kind of worried like, man, I haven't seen these guys like, is it going to be weird?

But it's not. It was like just last weekend that we played golf. And so the comradery I can't find that anywhere else. Right. I found that working together, sweating together, working towards a goal together, pushing champion ribbon, each other, talking smack to each other, writing each other up, like all of those things really helped us.

Jeremy: [01:00:40] No, there wasn't a return in the writing part, but I think that was one way, it was just the one direction. But, but it's easy, man. It's easy for me because I have a lot of respect for each of you. You know what I'm saying? I think that's, so for me, that's what it is. It's you know, these guys that same work ethic in a way, right?

Yeah. Yeah, different levels. Jesse, you're a beast, but in the field the work ethic and working with Noah working with, so it's easy to kind of, you can relate. I, I saw them. I know how hard they work and shit like that. So I have appreciation for that. And even our bus know was while I was a little bit, you know, I know, I know.

What are you guys are capable of, man. And it's cool. No, it really is cool to see a superintendent, man. Especially after going to the service side, I, 

Doug: [01:01:33] I thought we 

Jeremy: [01:01:33] lost him forever one. I didn't even couldn't believe you went that direction, but you like to play what you like to play with. So, so you want to know why 

Noah: [01:01:42] I went in that direction?

Jeremy: [01:01:46] No, we're good. What was the next question? 

Jesse: [01:01:50] Next question please. Next question. Why did you go to service? Was it for money? 

Noah: [01:01:57] It was two things. It was money. And growing. When I went to service, it was smaller. And I want it to grow at a faster rate. Like I wanted to be in a management position and a lead position 

 and at the time I felt like what we had on top of me, it was stuck and locked. And I'm wanting more money, which more money required me to move up. So when I went to service, They were telling me that they were amazed by like what I knew and how I would approach little projects  and they were like, oh man, dude, we're going to make you a manager. And I was like, all right. Yeah, this is what I want. I want to move into a higher level, make more money, take more load off of my body because I'm obviously not getting any younger and it didn't work out I had the want to get back into construction cause I missed the, believe it or not. I missed the planning part of it drawing ISOs  doing takeoffs. I missed that. Yeah. It was like if it was too easy in service I wanted to get back into it. When I asked if they were like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll take you back in a heartbeat. 

Jesse: [01:03:18] Well guys, we're about at the 90 minute, mark. Is there any topic or question that we should have covered? Not you Noah. You already, you already got half of the airtime

 Thank you for jumping on, man. This was cool. It was good catching up. And I guess July 17th, huh? July 19th. My bed 

Noah: [01:03:39] yeah. I would love to try to do like twice a month or even once a month, like we used to, 

Jeremy: [01:03:45] well, let's just try for once.

Cause you know, Jesse, you commit and you got him flaking out and we can't. Yeah, yeah, 

Jesse: [01:03:52] yeah. I'm starting to think I'm having a panic attack. Slow down, 

Jeremy: [01:03:57] slow down, Debbie, start talking like that, Noah. 

Doug: [01:03:59] Well, and he's national now too. He's got to travel wherever he travels and stuff. Yeah. 

Jesse: [01:04:04] Yeah. Let me, let me clear it with my agent and I'll get back to you.

Jeremy: [01:04:11] That was really good. Seeing you guys though. 

Doug: [01:04:14] Yeah, same here. 

Jesse: [01:04:15] All right guys. Y'all be cool