Transcript
WEBVTT
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All right, what is going on?
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L&m family?
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I am here with LinkedIn superstar Mr Albert Octavianus, who has sacrificed his time and stayed up to midnight to be here and share all of the amazing insights that he's had throughout his career.
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You know he's a change management expert first, and what really captures my attention is that he spends a lot of time or at least most of his posts that I've seen lately are about digital transformations, and what stands out to me is two things about that.
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He speaks about ecosystems in digital transformation, so I think we're going to learn a lot from him from that perspective.
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The other thing is it's clear that he is a people-centered leader, and I think there's a powerful combination there that folks are going to be able to take some value and apply to their change management issues, or even just in leadership and management right, because you also represent change.
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And he's also like he's a Aikido expert or practitioner.
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He's doing all kinds of things to continue his life experience here on the world.
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And so I'm going to I almost forgot I got to do the L&M shout out and then we'll get to talk to Mr Albert.
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And so L&M shout out to Renee, who left this review.
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He says, tremendously inspiring, to say the least.
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On the last chapter, I had to hold back the tears because I didn't want the book to end.
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Thank you, jesse, for sharing this with the world.
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This was the water that I needed to sprout the seeds you planted in me all the way back in sixth grade.
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That comes from my hero and my baby brother, rene.
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He finally read the book that I wrote six months ago and he went ahead and left that review, which, if you can't tell, I'm getting a little choked up because it was a super meaningful review.
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So, folks, leave me a review, send some comments.
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I love them and I want to have the opportunity to celebrate you on the next episode.
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And with that I'm gonna stop jamming.
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And before it turns, 3 am for mr albert over there.
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Mr albert, how?
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are you doing, sir?
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Okay, thank you, jc.
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I mean, like finally got to meet you online directly.
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Yeah, doing doing great here Doing great.
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It's a kind of wet season in my country, indonesia, jakarta, and yeah, like you said, it's midnight, but, like we discussed before, it's a good time to catch me, because I'm kind of night owl.
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Like Batman was my goal to become Batman someday, so you are a night owl then.
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Huh, yeah, it's actually not by choice, but it's actually by design.
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I think, okay, okay.
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Tell us more about what is the design behind this night owlness.
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Okay, so maybe around like 12 or 13 years ago.
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I think I'm still like most of the normal people out there, but I keep becoming night owl because, when I think around again, almost 10 years ago, my work is actually bringing me to that kind of things, you know, working with some global teams and then, because we have our differences in time, everything else, and then also I'm sure you know that we have like demands from the clients and projects, and so sometimes we are left with no choice but to do it like even after office, because sometimes I don't want to sacrifice my weekends, so I try to do it like okay, this is the weekdays, then I try to finish the weekdays and then the weekend is just for me to detox and decompress with it.
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So, yeah, that's why I thought it's not like really by choice, but it's by design, and design is actually from my career journey, what I'm hearing is as your career progressed, you got to a point where you were serving clients globally.
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So like are you midnight Saturday morning, right now, like you're in the future?
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yeah, yeah, yeah, okay you're in the future, you're always ahead of us.
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That's why I always eat cake right.
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There's always like a party somewhere in the world.
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So let me talk about this ecosystem and digital transformations, but I'm assuming that's not how you began your career, like, how did your career start?
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Or did you know as a young man that you wanted to be a leader of change and transformation?
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Definitely no, definitely no, jesse.
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I mean, when you know about change, I mean like you're one of them, right, one of the change leaders and change shakers, change makers, I mean our communities and you notice that it's a relentless role as a change maker and to become managing that kind of change.
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Like not all people are ready for that kind of challenges.
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But when I started, I think for the past years past and in the recent years, when I was being asked about my career choice and then even in like interviews, something like when people like okay, can you tell us in one words about yourself, what about yourself?
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And then your journey, and then just like one word, like oh, it's eclectic.
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Why eclectic?
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Because like yeah, a combination of several things.
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like I started in my my undergrad studies, like in engineering, and I took like the industrial engineers and I took like quality management kind of studies and I actually started in that I do my thesis my thesis in the quality management, in the ISO standardizations, but yeah, but I mean along the way, and then I think I also share a bit with you in your post in the comment section, that I work in the water filtration companies and so in the warehouse, everything else.
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So that's why I started my career when I was studying, also for my master degrees, right, but then my passion actually is marketing, oh yeah, so it's marketing and that's why I think I learned how to express myself in writings and then how I can get to know all of these things that we call personal branding.
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Everything else at that I think at the time in personal branding is not that kind of hype.
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But yeah, yeah, I learned from there.
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But somehow along the way I saw this little ads in the newspaper for all of the new generations.
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We used to have job ads in newspapers.
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The small one People don't know about that, yeah, and then I saw that Wait, what is it?
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It's change management.
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So it's around like 2000,.
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And I think it's 2002.
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So like 20 years ago.
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Oh my God, I just realized it's before Justin Bieber time.
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Okay, so it's 2002.
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And then I said change management, it sounds interesting.
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And then I tried to apply it and at the time in Indonesia, in my country, never heard of that change management.
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Change management was being brought by the big force.
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I think at the time it's mostly Accenture, ibm, the ones implementing the ERP systems in the big companies.
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So when I applied that and I got like actually I got called by the recruiters when I came to the companies.
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It's a quite big shock for me, because then the company is actually one of the biggest conglomerates in Indonesia.
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I'm like why are you putting this small ads in newspapers and with a PO box and with no address?
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At the time we don't have a big use of emails, unfortunately.
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And then the recruiter said, yeah, that's our purpose, because only the persons that are actually interested in change management they't apply or they want to apply.
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Yeah.
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So I got in and then at the time you can like count in one hand change management practitioners in Indonesia and most of them are mostly in consultings.
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And so I got in to become the employees there and I actually asked my boss, saying hey, sir, can I ask you like, why do you accept me to become change management?
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Because I know nothing about it at the time, there's no school and there's no books around it.
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And then the boss actually asked me yeah, because you're coming from a marketing background and you have a passion in marketing.
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I was like, oh, okay, so that's something right.
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That is really interesting yeah because why?
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Because you have to make people want to change.
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And yeah, because, why?
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Because you have to make people want to change and you say, okay, so there's the wants and there's the needs.
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I mean, the goal is to make people realize that they need to change.
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But you have to start it with they want to change first.
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Like maybe you heard a lot of things, a lot of memes coming in, like people want to change but they don't want to be changed 100%.
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Yeah, but when they realize they need the change and the change comes from within.
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So that's where my marketing background comes in.
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And to make that, you have to make them realize there's an added value in changing.
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And that's where my industrial engineer's background comes in.
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So it's complementary, what with the process and you I think we have in our communities, like the Lean Master, everything else, because you make them realize there's something, there's an added value with changing the process, improve the process, and that's where it comes in.
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Let's combine together and then I join in and then, truthfully, after working there, two years of change management, mostly system implementations I realized not realized actually I want to try as a marketer again.
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So I get into business development.
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Yeah, but again in 2008 hits, and then it happens the globalizations at the time, 2008, I think.
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And then so I quit as the business development at that time, the area for agribusiness and I go back again change management, but business development at that time, the area for agribusiness.
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And I go back again change management, but under HR at the time, previously under IT, and it's under HR, and at the time I think like, like they say, the rest is history.
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So I go deep into HR area, hr space, yeah, until now.
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So I go both, like let me say, wait, you're HR, so you change management, so you change management, so you definitely HR, no, change management.
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I think it's like they have a lot of how do you say, common practice with HR, but it's not HR.
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I think it's also it's process, it's everything else.
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So I'm both HR and change management, yeah, so that's a little bit story there.
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That's amazing.
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So a few things that stood out.
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You started in engineering, got into marketing and then got into change management, and then, within change management, you went to IT, hr, which I think for the practical person to say what in the world Like, why would you?
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How does that even work?
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But I completely understand, and so I want to share an observation and I'd like to know what you think about it.
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I know a lot of people that are in change management with an engineering background and they struggle to get people excited about the change or the way they go about deploying the change makes the change happen, but as soon as they leave, it falls apart.
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What are your thoughts there?
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Okay.
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So I'm really glad to bring up these topics because it's like two of the five best questions in change management, Like how to make people excited for the change.
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That's the first one.
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The second one like how to make it sustainable, and okay, so the first one, how to make them excited.
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It's always come back to the classic part I think it started by the movement by Simon Sinek that he was saying that start with why.
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Right, Start with the why.
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But there's a catch on that when you start with the why, you sometimes negate the purpose of managing change.
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So in change management, you are managing change.
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We are not changing the management, like some of the common misperceptions.
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That's a big difference.
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That's a big difference, but unfortunately, some of my clients are thinking that way, so I try to make them straight.
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So it's managing change, but by doing that, you have to focus on the how.
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You can start with the why.
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You can start with the why.
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You can know about the what, but change management you put your effort into the how.
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Oof.
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Yes, sir.
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So this is something that when I saw many change practitioners coming in and even in consulting areas so they are too focused on the what and the why they forgot that you're not your job, actually You're.
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How do you say you can't have an added value in this kind of project and this kind of change initiative if you tell the project team and then the stakeholders the how part, Because the what, sometimes the what is already being decided?
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Yeah, it's already decided.
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Like, why are you coming in?
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I'm going to change management?
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Oh, because I'm contacted here or I'm needed here because you already want to change something.
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That's the what.
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It's already decided.
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And then the why.
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To go to the what.
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Sometimes you have to go, I believe, like you have to do like these valuations and then the feasibility studies.
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If you're going into the project with project, is it worth it that I'm doing this project?
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So that's the why.
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Okay, you have to know the why for sure, because you're going to need that to trigger it, the needs in people or the wants in people.
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And you are for sure you have to know the what.
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If not, you don't have any kind of basis, baseline to create your transformation process, but the how, how.
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Now that's the challenge there, when you started to create the how and then work around that the how as a core, with the people-centric in mind and being supported.
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Like you said, being an engineer, it gives you a very important leading edge in competency in your trade as an engineer.
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We engineers are practical beings, right?
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Yes, you're looking at some things, like you're looking at machines.
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You're looking at drawings.
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Sometimes you don't know, like, hey, who's drawing this?
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Or like how these drawings come to be, or how these machines are designed.
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Sometimes you only think like how are they working?
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What are they resulting?
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Right, as an engineer, so that's how I was being built as an engineer, so that has given me the leading edge, like when designing this change.
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That gives me the purpose of the process itself, what it will deliver, what are the results of the process.
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So that's my second why you have the, why the change initiative, why you have to change but you have the results or the goals why you have to change, but you have the results or the goals why you design these processes.
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Now that's the thing that you have to bring to the stakeholders and give them the information that, okay, these are the values that you will get if you go to these processes.
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This process won't be easy.
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Sometimes you have to balance the good and the bad.
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Otherwise sometimes you oh you can, after this change, like you can't have shortened process time, shortened SLA that's good, but there's a but in there.
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But you have to experience these painful things first.
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You have to learn new things.
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You have to learn being uncomfortable.
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You have to go or stretch your comfort zones.
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How?
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Now that's where change management comes in.
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So I think that's one thing that your first questions like change management focus the effort on the how and how.
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That how can result in added failure on the whole change process and you have to communicate that failures from the how part to the stakeholders.
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That's one of the, for me, the critical things how to make the stakeholders be excited about the change.
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Okay.
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So that's the first one, the first one and the second one.
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I forgot the second one.
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The second question Good stopping point.
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Maybe I'll come back to you.
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So the one thing when you said, like the why and the what, the what's already figured out.
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If what's already figured out, if they didn't know what, they wouldn't call me For my clients.
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They've already decided we want to do this thing.
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Help us do this thing.
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Awesome, what's all why?
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I don't appreciate the amount of energy that people talk about.
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You got to share the why Because it's not that complicated.
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I mean, maybe I'm under, maybe I just don't understand it, maybe I just don't understand it.
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But it's like if all you do is tell me you give me these promises of how we're going to have better outcomes and our clients are going to be satisfied and work-life balance is like, wow, wow, wow, whatever, show me I understand.
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Okay, what's the why?
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We want to improve cycle time so that we can get more market share.
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That's really why the how Like nobody talks about the how.
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Albert and, I hope, l&m family members out there, all you change folks like we are not focusing enough time on the how, and so I'm doing some online training with a group of electricians and one of the guys he's a superintendent.
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Online training with a group of electricians and one of the guys he's a superintendent.
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He said it like we were figuring out.
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How do you study, work and break it down and analyze it and redesign it?
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And he was beautiful.
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He's like you know what, jess?
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I just realized part of our problem, like our production problem with our guys, and what's causing like the friction in terms of relationships, is we have the what, we got to install the thing and we know why, so we can keep our jobs and make budget, but we have never talked about the how to do that work, to hit the what and meet the why.
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You didn't say those exact words, but when you said, I'm like, oh my God, there's a fundamental concept there that I think a lot of people are missing.
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And so I mentioned at the top of the conversation that I recognize you to be a very people-centered leader, a change leader at that.
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What's the relationship?
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How did you develop that people, the appreciation for people, and connect that to the how, or is it even connected?
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Okay.
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So it comes back again with remember when I mentioned about my first passion in marketing, in career right.
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So it turns out that after almost a decade I'm doing the marketing and the switch to HR.
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I'm doing the marketing and the switch to HR.
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I then realized that one silver linings on those two roles to careers actually people.
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You try to find out the pain points of your customers, your customer journey, everything else.
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Then in HR you're also trying to find the pain points for your employees.
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Those are the people, they are your internal customers.
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So I think, because of that then, why I mentioned the more people centric I mean, for sure, the PPT for an industrial engineer is like the bibles, like the power, the people process, technology, right, but people for me comes first, because I think those two kind of backgrounds and then those two kind of patients in my career journey and how do you link it to the how it actually comes from, when you know about what can you do to have a value added for these people, you know that, being people-centric, you have to become like, not become.
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You have to stretch your empathy.
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You have to walk yeah, you have to walk in their shoes like a couple of miles you have to walk yeah, you have to walk in their shoes like a couple of miles.
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You know how their journey is.
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You know how their experience challenges in their journey.
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As simple as when you design, I think, coming into the banks and then coming into the office, like I design employee experience, and then when one of the clients said, oh, we already have employee experience, we already have employee journeys, I mean, take a look, when I saw the journey, I said asking did you map the employee's journey when they're commuting to work to your office?
00:19:13.567 --> 00:19:14.549
It's never there.
00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:15.432
It's never there.
00:19:15.432 --> 00:19:21.065
The journey is always starting when you become a candidate, you are recruited and then from hire to retire in HR.
00:19:21.065 --> 00:19:26.663
But when workers already come in, did you map the journey in commuting?
00:19:26.663 --> 00:19:37.250
I mean, maybe you heard that Jakarta is like what sometimes the expatriates are calling the biggest parking spot in Southeast Asia.
00:19:37.634 --> 00:19:40.724
Because most of the roads are becoming parking spots most of the time.
00:19:41.477 --> 00:19:45.817
So your car is just stuck there and yeah, it's happening, so the commuting is a challenge.
00:19:45.817 --> 00:20:01.288
So by knowing that, by working in their shoes, and then you as the change leader or change management, or even as a consultant, or like the third party coming in, or even as the hr leaders, the companies, then you might know what needs to be done.
00:20:01.288 --> 00:20:15.703
So you, I think, if you heard about the these two circles, like the circle of concerns and the circle of influence, so this circle, if influence, is something that you can influence, like the circle of concerns and the circle of influence, so this circle of influence is something that you can influence, but the circle of concern is something that you are trying but you cannot.
00:20:15.703 --> 00:20:18.484
So you try to widen your circle of influence.
00:20:18.484 --> 00:20:34.040
So, after knowing that, and you know what are the things that you can influence to reduce or to eliminate the pain points of these people, and then how, again, how to make that happen, that's where you become people-centric.
00:20:34.040 --> 00:20:35.962
That's why you relate it to the how of them.
00:20:36.163 --> 00:20:37.344
Yeah, for me that's the thing.
00:20:37.344 --> 00:20:41.867
Then, if you can track that, then you have, I would say, the added value.
00:20:41.867 --> 00:20:49.872
You're saying that, okay, so I can reduce the commute, I can help you with the commute, you as employees.
00:20:49.872 --> 00:21:01.219
I can add maybe one or two buses employee bus to have the pickup points and then the delivery points, right Pulling station or something there near the employees.
00:21:01.219 --> 00:21:13.022
But you're going to need, like a true again true feasibility studies with analytics or data and everything else when are most employee livings, what are the pockets of the employees and where you can put the bus?
00:21:13.022 --> 00:21:13.644
Everything else right.
00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:36.171
But then you have to justify how is it getting to added value for the people and the companies, for the people for sure, yeah, mutual people for sure, they're going like, okay, I don't have to bring my own car, I just have to park here and then just go there, and then I can go directly with public transport to the pool, and then I just like sit in the bus and I arrive in my office.
00:21:36.171 --> 00:21:37.075
That's the baseline.
00:21:37.075 --> 00:21:41.099
But for the company it's like, oh, we have to go with more budget, everything else.
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:59.938
But if you end up as an HR, you can prove, or as a change management, you can prove, by these processes, by how you're going to calculate them, then you get okay, you will have to invest like maybe several thousand dollars in the first year, but in the next couple of years you will save this.
00:21:59.978 --> 00:22:00.359
How much?
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:00.821
Why?
00:22:00.821 --> 00:22:02.962
Because people are not resigning, right.
00:22:02.962 --> 00:22:04.671
People are staying, yep.
00:22:04.671 --> 00:22:08.163
People are not taking more PTOs or sick leave Yep, but it's a long run.
00:22:08.163 --> 00:22:10.648
People are not taking more PTOs or sick leave Yep, yep, but it's a long run.
00:22:11.290 --> 00:22:11.992
It's a long game.
00:22:11.992 --> 00:22:12.775
It's a long game, man.
00:22:13.174 --> 00:22:15.460
That's where you mentioned about sustainability.
00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:16.482
That's it, desi.
00:22:16.482 --> 00:22:17.865
That's the sustainability part, yeah.
00:22:18.207 --> 00:22:20.803
Oh man, albert, God, this is so good.
00:22:20.803 --> 00:22:25.380
So one thing I want to hammer on folks if you missed it, go back rewind.
