Fostering a Culture of Change with Jennifer Lacy

My observation is when we've done the live stuff, you have a lot to say, but you'll, pair it down. Or, or you'll just say, I'm just gonna leave it there. You don't have to do that. You get to just say everything you need to say.

Okay. You'll need to prod that a little bit. I'm going to tell you a huge thing I've learned. And it's one of those things that probably fosters a lot of what you're saying right now, as I've learned, when I'm speaking, there is no learning going on. There's nothing happening. I've learned that, and I can speak and I can help others and I can encourage others. And that's great. But at any point that I'm speaking, the only context and the only starting point is what's inside me. And so there's no learning going on at all when anything's coming out of my mouth. And so I work very hard on making my point. And then at that point, stopping because whatever I've put out there, whether it was a grenade or it was a, you know, a little flame or a little spark or whatever, whatever it was, if I can just stop then whatever that did will lie and it will ignite. And then those things will come out and then I'll get, and then I'll be able to learn from that. All what's going on L and M family. Welcome back. Thank you for continuing to support us in our efforts to enhance the image of careers in the trades you just heard a real quick snippet of the uncontainable Ms. Jennifer Lacy. She's going to put on a masterclass of culture transformation, and self-discovery. I did my very best to keep my damn mouth shut Because I know you have been faced with the challenge of leading change and you're about to get some knowledge maybe because Jennifer's bringing it. So you best be ready to take some notes. And on the LNM backstage pass, which is fans onlybe content. She dropped straight gold, man. You got to check it out. Hit us up on patreon.com/learnings and missteps spelled correctly this time. I heard you loud and clear. I was being stubborn about this spelling. It is changed soak up all of them, L and M backstage pass episodes. and it's time to get you some

here we are with miss Jennifer, Lacey, how are you, Jennifer?

I've been doing okay. I'm a little bit nervous, but that's

okay. You're nervous. So tell us, why are you nervous?

I'm nervous because I am probably those that know me. One of the most comfortable, uncomfortable people. Like I can be in a room. I can have no idea what we're going to talk about. I can run, it can be at a, you know, on a project. I can be in a room with executives that doesn't matter. It, even though it's a, it's a kind of an uncomfortable situation. I'm comfortable. I'm okay with that. I'm not, I'm okay with the unknown and for whatever reason, just because. It, this is different for me, or this is a different setting or I don't know what we're going to talk about. And it's about me. I am, I it's got me completely upside down right now.

Yes. I'm going to mark that on the calendar calendar here. Got , Jennifer off center. I get points for that. So when I first reached out about you being on the show, what was the first thought that came to mind?

Why me, and what value could I add to the reach that you have and what, you know, it's just me and that's you know, me a little bit, so, you know, that's kind of where I go, but I listened to the podcast and I listened to the people that you interview and a lot of them are field focused. A lot of them are practitioners. A lot of them are in the field and they're doing some amazing things. And sometimes I think for me, you know, helping support that and helping being a part of that and helping elevate others, it's not, not in line with that. And so I think for me, it was okay. , what value can I

add? That's where you always come from is how are you going to add value? So that's part of the reason why in the other reason is, you know, the purpose of the show is to enhance the image of careers in the trades or in our industry. And yet I'm a tradesman. And so it's easy for me to say, I'm just going to talk to, to craft workers, people that are installing the stuff. However, there are a ton of careers in our industry that people just don't know about. I interviewed Diana Hoang she's a, she's a talent acquisitionist as fancy, right? Because of that for that exact reason, because she's an amazing human being and also to, to help our listeners out there and maybe more pointed the parents and the educators to become aware of the diversity of the trades in our industry. So that's another reason why Jennifer and maybe not lastly, but I'll stop with you or you, I mean, we've talked about it earlier. Like you didn't come up in construction and, and you are having enormous impact on so many projects across the country. And there's people out there that have the same, or maybe not the same. Probably absolutely not the same, but similar capability and maybe not happy in their job, not fulfilled in their job. And we need those amazing people in our industry to be able to, to change the things for the people, for everybody, for the clients, for the installers, for the management. So that's why I'm thinking if we, you know, get Jennifer's voice out there because you inspire me. And I know that there's a whole bunch of people out there that if they just caught that smile and heard the energy in your voice, they would know like, oh wow, there's something else. And maybe take a leap of faith and try something different. So that's why you, Jennifer,

is that fair. That makes sense.

Thank you for listening to the show and I say that kind of selfishly, so whoever's listening right now for the first time, listen to the rest of the episodes. Absolutely. It's been amazing and when people share so much and we have a really, really great time. And you're well, no, not you, Jake Harrell. I interviewed he's the most recent episode and he's a lean practitioner. He's not in the construction space, but she talks about improvement and he talks about the leadership, the responsibility of leadership in any change movement, which. We got legally, we need some of that over here

and industries. And I think just as I have conversations, that's it's, I was talking to Adam Hoots recently he says, I see everywhere. He looks, he sees flow, he looks at flow and I'm like, everything, everything I see, I see waste. And it's like, I'm having a conversation with my brother or my friend. And, you know, there are companies and what they're talking about and it's like, waste, waste, waste, waste. I just see, I just see waste every time I'm looking at something. And, even as we're in the house cleaning or doing something, it's like waste, waste waste. We got to

kill it. Get rid of it, get it out of the system. The next few interviews are going to be with lean practitioners. And again, I know some of the reasoning behind that is, is my experience coming up through the trades. I never would have never, never, ever, ever would. I have said I want to be a lean person when I grow up or if I grow. But that's what I do. Like you said, I caught the bug, can't help, but see it everywhere. And, and most of the folks from the construction changemaker group are on the lineup to be interviewed here in the near future, because I want to, again, show, highlight folks, but maybe if you zoom out and look at the lineup and see what their, all their messages are, would give some hope because in our industry is PR it's rough. It can be very rough on people. And we need people to know that there are some dedicated maniacs out there working to make it a more hospitable place, you know? Right. So that's the rundown on the, the soon to come line up, we've got some super cool people, but back to Ms. Jennifer Lacy, Jennifer, what would you like the L and M family to know about. I think a couple of things, some of them weren't there before you just started talking while ago. And then my brain just went to, you know, because again, it comes back to, you know, why am I here? I think I, and you know, and how are we changing the perception of the construction industry I come in completely with, no construction background. Now I say that 18 years ago, you know, so it's like I say, no construction background and it's like, oh, you know, we're just talking to a newbie. My journey has been a little bit of a roller coaster, how I've navigated throughout construction, but I'd be remiss to not give a little bit of credit to the company that I worked for just because you know, Robinson Morton 18 years ago opened an office and they took a chance on someone that had zero experience, but, there were some things and qualities obviously that they felt could help benefit them. And then through that, gave me kind of the autonomy to be able to find my way through marketing and through BD and through, just conversations and then also. A little over six years ago, we started as a company, looking at lean and looking at what that looked like started capturing some of our successes on some IPD projects. And I think I sat through one onboarding and it was kind of, Hey, we're, you know, we're, we're looking to, to change kind of the mindset and looking at what it looks like for Robinson Morton specifically, we do healthcare construction and I sat through one onboarding and I listened for a half day. To what, what lean was and what, how Robinson Morton wanted to approach that. And it, I couldn't even sit in my seat. Like they were talking about collaboration and leadership development in a learning culture and continuous improvement. And again, these were the first time these words have been thrown, have been introduced to me, even though I was working in a company that, I was happy, I'm happy and I'm enjoying what I do. And it just lit a fire inside of me to where I could not even contain it. And I'm asking questions and I, what is this? And, and, and I then at that point, it just, how can I learn? And for me, It wasn't so much, I got to go read and I got to go, do all these things. It was, I have an entire sandbox entire playground of people that are out there. You're doing amazing things and have had successes and I've had failures and what worked and what didn't. And I think for me, it was okay, how can I tap into all that? And I've got some really good friends, some of my best friends that I think for a while, it took like, okay, Jennifer enough, like I was asking questions after questions, after questions.

Cause I wanted to know and understand. And part of it was construction obviously. Cause you want to understand what you're promoting and what you're talking about, but the other part was, how does that equate to lean? And what does that look like? And so for someone who has been in the industry, but wasn't out there, building something or, , wasn't on the project site all the time. It was like getting that information. And then how does, how does that equate to the other job and how does that make that different ? And I think the more that I saw it and the more that I saw, the impact it was having for me, it came down to, there's a lot of tools and there's a lot of processes and strategy when it comes to lean, but what hit home for me and what still does today. And, you know, that is that foundation of that respect for the people. I think when it comes down to, for construction at the, for us being, an industry that is known for sometimes, taking advantage or focusing on a win, lose, making that environment, not, a win-win for everyone and for what lean the foundation of lean focusing on that respect for people. It gave me something to kind of anchor to and knowing, okay, if I'm going to do this and I feel like I, I need to then how can I make that be what's elevated? That's what I think got me excited and gave me some foundation to be able to jump off.

So for the new L and M listener that also heard lean for the very first time, how would you describe it to them?

For me it's the, the way I describe it, it's, it's two things. It's number one is it is looking at eliminating waste. How are we eliminating the waste in our industry? How are we adding value? So is it, is there value being added? Are we doing, is it an action or is it a process that is adding value to the, to the end customer? And then how are we improving efficiency? How are we looking at the way we've done things and looking at a better way to do it? So there, those are the that's the way I, I try to sum it up when it comes to, to lean. Obviously people are, is the theme throughout all of that and how they, how they impact that. The other one is the balance. And this is what I've run into when it comes to, to lean or even for us, it's building forward. Building forward is our kind of lean approach, but it focuses on that culture of caring for the people that's the foundation. And then the other things are built upon that. So it's a culture of caring, but building forward. And then it's balancing that with lean tools. And I think for me helping communicate to across the board that when you're looking at it, and it's a visual that I put in every alignment, onboarding, whatever, it's a very simple visual, it's a scale. And when you're looking at the scale, there's compliance and there's continuous improvement, and what we've struggled to communicate to those that have been so successful in this industry, those that have experienced and those that have maybe come up, you know, in a, in a different mindset is that it's not one or the other. It's a scale. So there's going to be times that it's going to tilt towards compliance because you cannot improve construction. If you cannot build and you don't understand it. So those policies and procedures and those things that are in place to make sure that we're building, you know, just a basic foundation of being able to build, there's going to be times where that has to be the focus. And it's not about how do we make it better if we can't have that basic foundation. Now there's also times it's going to tilt the other way and there's opportunities to go, Hey, we've got this baseline, but how do we make it better? And that's where it tilts towards continuous improvement where we can elevate and highlight ideas, innovations, things like that. But to me, it's a scale and we have to, we have to embrace that and we have to make sure that we're communicating that, that there's times that it's going to tilt one way. Cause that has to be what's focused. And then the other thing, the other way, because that needs to be the focus.

That is the far better way of saying you must have standards. Have you heard that?

Yeah. I know Deming said you cannot manage what you don't measure. And that's, that's a quote that he says, but I, I throw that out the window. I do respect everything he's put in place, but in my mind, you cannot improve what you don't measure because managing is, you know, we know that word managed, lead, things like that. Sometimes it gets a little weird on, on what does that look like, but you cannot improve what you don't measure and how do you measure with no baseline

you've been working on, ondefining of baseline lately. Haven't you a little bit, a little bit,a lot-a-bit I think you mentioned your path you've been with Robinson Morton 18 years. And I'm sure there's plenty of path prior to those 18 years. You've had some autonomy along the way. So with that autonomy, what were the bumpers or the guard rails that you used to, to stay within the path? I know that you kind of define the path, but there may not have been bumpers there. What was that like, how'd you do it? How did you do it, Jennifer?

I'm not even sure that I could, I could define that specifically because it's still, it's one of those that when you're in the front and you're trying to lead that way and you're trying to navigate what that looks like. You're, you're so focused on what that next step is. You haven't really thought about what those steps were behind you. And so it, it, for me, I have to kind of stop and reflect on that. But again, for me and the company that I worked for, I have been blessed with, you know, leaders that I work with and that have, have seen something in me and have trusted. That I'm going to represent our company, right. And I'm going to support our people and I'm going to help us, in way and what that looks like for our next generation and given us validity and get making sure that we are staying viable, you know, within the industry. And I think we, we recognized as a company, six, seven years ago, the value of lean. Again, we weren't doing IPD across the company. We were having some, some, a couple of, very highlighted projects. And we started, and we had some leaders that, recognized their success. And I think they allow themselves to look in, in finding, okay, what made this project different than this project? Now, again, success is defined differently for a lot of people. And at no point, do we want to say those that have had success, have done it wrong? You know, we know that the, that we've had a lot of success and we've had a lot of people that have done some amazing things, but again, based on future generations, based on people coming into the workforce, based on the lack of the workforce, we can't continue doing things the same way and expect that we're going to get the same results. We've got to look at how are we approaching some of the people coming in that need that autonomy that needs some ownership that need to feel like they're a leader or that they, you know, something that their voice matters. And maybe in traditional construction, sometimes, , there was one voice and, that superintendent was able to be the voice and you just responded to the voice. And I think David Marquet has a a leadership video go out there. It's like a submarine video. And he talks through just the importance of not just being that voice and creating that intent and letting people kind of have a little bit of, like you said, guard rails to be able to go and, and be able to own a little bit of it, but also a little bit of room for it. Maybe some roadblocks or some things that, okay, let's try this. Okay. That was, that didn't work. How can we now keep going forward? And realizing that we've got to be able to do better. And and I think for me, that's, that's what I was given. Some people were given that and they're like, okay, what do I do with this? I was given it and going, okay. I mean, you gave it to me, so let's go. I was able to take that and push forward sometimes again, some of those were a little Rocky and some, we definitely made some mistakes and didn't quite approach it the right way. But I think we learned from those and I think that's making us better. And also giving me a really good, I guess, roadmap going forward on some things we want to make sure that we address.

You entered the construction industry 18 years ago. So you've been in different places, very different places. I'm interested to know the people. What similarities and differences really stand out to you between the folks that work in our industry and in the spaces you were at before?

Okay. So coming in prior to construction, I was a teacher and a coach. So I, yeah, so that's, let's go there. And so you think that, that it, you think it's just this other end of the spectrum? I think what I realized there, I got into teaching and coaching and let's go back a little bit more. So one of your questions, I think to me at some point to prepare for this was what, what were those early aspirations? What were those things that you, you know, when you were younger and you're getting your college degree and you're, you know, you're figuring out. So I went into college with an absolute, anything, the farthest from teaching that I could, that I could do. And, and that for me was, you know, a degree in operations management, looking at manufacturing out, have no idea why I wanted that, what I thought about it, you know, and it's, it's full circle now. So it's kind of, it's kind of comfortable, but my dad wasn't here. And my dad was a single father and he was, you know, raising four kids and, you know, taught for 29 years. So when you grow up and that's kind of the environment and that's, what's, navigating your life, I was just like, I will never be a teacher because like I got to listen to all, I got to sit at home and grade papers, you know, he was a science teacher. , we're also talking about, 30, 40 years ago, but still. Being growing up in that I was like, I will not go into that industry. I will not. So I go and get a degree, an operations management. So, you know, completely outside of that. And then through the course of, the universe I got reached out to and asked, Hey, we have an opportunity here for you to come and teach and coach. And I went back to school for three years to get my thing, teaching certification, because for whatever reason at that time, that's what, you know, made sense. And that's what we're, my passion was pooled. And and so it opened up a lot of things, but I think what it did do, and I think it was needed was it gave me a platform to be able to get comfortable talking, to be able to get comfortable being in front of people. That will question everything you do when you are teaching sixth, seventh, eighth graders, you know, high school kids. It doesn't matter what you're teaching them. It doesn't matter what you are communicating to them. They will question it, they will attack it, they will resist it. And I think it was it's now looking back thinking about that. And then the coaching aspect I played college and I played basketball in college. And so again, the teaching and the coaching piece, that's the best part of, what's inside of me anyway, and being able to help with how the leadership and the team and the behaviors and the environment when you're looking at sports teams and you're looking at how, it's very equivalent to our project. I've heard this and it was a conversation. I was a part of, they got a little bit, a little bit tense, but it was a, Hey, when you think about your team, is it, is it, you know, your project? Is it a team or a family? And it was, it was a very kind of a diet. I mean, people were taking very extreme, you know, it's, it's this, or it's this, you know, and it's not boast. And I think as I was, watching it and kind of giving my feedback, it, it brought me back to that coaching and that teaching, but also being a part of a team in college and things like that. And how much for me, again, it goes down to the people and it goes down to that basic, you know, when you're respecting people and you trust the people that you're with, where does that go? For me, there's not a big line between family and team when you're, when you're talking about your work and you're talking about the people that you surround yourself, But I think I saw in that and, and looking back obviously retrospectively cause, when you're in it, you're just like, I gotta get out of this. So I taught for almost five years and I think I went into it going, this is new, this is great. You know, let me figure this out. But I was going to school for three of those years and I think I was learning and I was taking it in and it's like, okay, I'm growing. And I think once I got that and I was in a place for teaching again, much respect for teaching and coaching, my, my dad did it for his entire career. But it was one of those that I was it was, it was, I felt like very contained. And I dunno if you know me a little bit, but I don't, I don't contain well. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity for me to to grow and to learn and just what the, well, you know, what does that career path look like? And there, and so for me, it just, I felt like very, just again, continue. And I needed, I needed something different. I had no idea what that was. Cause obviously my, you know, my background was a little bit colored. And so I just, again, went out and, started kind of doing some temp stuff and, and then the opportunity the Robins Morton opened the Dallas office and they were looking for someone to help open it. And that's kind of how I got my start.

So can't contain Jennifer Lacy.

I mean, I'm not saying people haven't tried, it just doesn't end. Well,

that's fair. You talked a little while earlier about the learning make you learn more when, when you talk less and you talked about university being an educator, while also learning like, as you were going to school, You came to, to the construction industry and you, you didn't come straight into the lean culture changing magician that you are now You started in a very different role. And what I'm, what I'm picking up on, is this the space to learn?

Yes, the evolution, I think as I w what you see today is definitely not what came in to this industry 18 years ago, but it, it not, not that the potential wasn't there, but I think my, the evolution of what happened and what I've been able to do and, and grow, and who I am today is as definitely something that was fostered throughout, throughout that 18 years. I think I came in and, you know, in the role I had a lot of. I was supporting operations and pre-con, and the office and BD and marketing. There were just a lot of hats that I came in, which was great. Cause I was learning something new in a new industry. So it was almost, it needed that foundation needed to be late. So I can understand what everything that I was going to be able to support. And I think because of that, no, took a little bit more of a strategic BD marketing track because it, when you're marketing, you're, you're elevating and you're sharing and you're, you're lifting, you're lifting a lot of things up and you're promoting and things like that. When I'm doing that, that's my happy place when I can, when I can elevate others and I can inspire and I can encourage you know, and that goes back to teaching and coaching but, and I think that's where, you know, how do we differently shade ourselves? How do we elevate the people that are out there? And I think that that track is what th that I kinda took for, for the, I guess, prior to coming in, to being exposed to them, And so it was good. Cause when you're out there communicating, and you probably know this, anytime you have to teach a class or you have to have a conversation, whether it's sales, you know, whatever it is to be able to go in there and you have to prepare. And if you're preparing to, to promote a company, to be able to sell a company, you know, you've got to do a lot of learning cause you want to make sure you're communicating the right things. What are those differentiators, things like that. And so I was able to grow and learn just in who we are and what we do and be able to be a huge advocate for our company and for our industry internally, to help our company, but also externally on who, the people that I surround myself with.

You mentioned the word evolution and I agree with it a hundred percent. It is an evolution. It's an evolution of self discovery and identifying what it is within oneself to best serve. The people we care about or the community and the CLO, the older I get, and maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but the older I get the clearer that becomes and so I'm thinking about the middle school, Jennifer Lacy, that was bawling on everybody on the court and just killing it in the classroom. There's some traits that you have that, that you've had all the time since you were a little one, but you've maybe not back then didn't understand what they were and maybe cause some confusion in your mind as you were developing and figuring out your uniqueness, what are some of those things?

Okay, well, I'm going to think a little bit, you, you know, me a little bit, just a tiny bit, a little bit. Okay. From your perspective, what's something that comes through that. Knowing my background and knowing my history, maybe it, the seed was planted.

Beautiful question. So what comes through first is a ferocious appetite to learn that that comes through clearly. The second thing that really comes through that, rather it's in, in what you share, it's in your story, you don't say it explicitly, but there's this fierce level of competition of competing and not just competing, but winning. How far off base.

I mean, again, competition I'm, I'm the oldest sister. I have three younger brothers and, you know, worth it five years of each other. So, I mean, so when you think growing up, growing up single father, I mean, I was, we were talking about it. You took vacation all of us together a couple of weeks ago. And we were talking about, we remember growing up and I, and I, and, and it's funny, you asked that question because we were talking about it specifically that he would sit us all, if something, if something happened and he wanted to know who did it, so he can know who was going to get punished or who was going to get, you know, spanking or whatever. So it's like, he'd sit us all for, and this is, I mean, from early memories, he'd sit as all four on the couch and he's like, you're going to figure it out. You're going to tell me who did it, so that, so that then we can, we can move forward. I got one brother that we know was most of the time, the one that did. And he's like, I'm good. I'm not admit to anything. Like he was, he's like, I'll sit here all day. I don't care. Like, but I'm not, I'm not alone in this. I got another brother that was like a little bit of the peacemaker, but almost like, oh my gosh, I got stuff. I'm going to go do fine. I'll own it. So I can you get the spanking so we can all go. Like, it was just the dynamic of what happened on that couch numerous times and what he was doing. Again, part of it was to benefit him cause he wanted to know who needed to learn the lesson. But the other one was what he created in that collaboration, in that us talking and that well, that building of relationships and the, you know, the behaviors and the things that we were able to figure out ourselves. Now, looking back into the, even the, like you said, the competition piece, but just the things that were built and then going forward, when you're, when you're also dealing with, who's winning and who's not, I mean, it's just those type of things. It was just, it was laid so early and it was fostered and it was, I mean, he, it was without a doubt, like he was building something and he had a plan. We were, we weren't sure what the plan was, but I mean, but even now, we're all, in our forties and, you know, we get together on Sunday and we play cards and we get together and we take vacations together. And I mean, again, in a, in a family of four kids, that, that doesn't happen very much. So it's, it's, it was really cool looking back. But I think that feeling in that environment and what those behaviors and those relationships that's easily carried over into my work and into the people that I interact with. There's not one that I don't try to make feel, just as important as, if I'm sitting with my brothers. Hmm. I don't know if that even answered your question.

It does. It, it does. I mean, the reason I asked the question is, you know, I remember I imagined. There's a bunch of youngsters out there that are confused. You talked a little bit about construction, right? There's a, there's a particular definition of success that can lead people astray. So we get focused on outcomes. And so however we get there is okay, which is not entirely appropriate. Now, when we're younger, there's things that we notice about ourselves, but it's different than everybody else around us. I think it's easy to get confused and thinking I need to conform, but reality is no, you, don't absolutely not. Like the greatest thing you're going to be is you and lean into that. And, and you, the reason I asked is to confirm like how far off base is my thinking around that. And that when you're youngster, those things that you feel like you need to change about yourself, you don't have to, you actually need to nurture them and develop them. And so the, your response absolutely highlighted that because it's what you're doing now.

I was reading your mind. I just didn't know that.

Can you remember at what point you were able just to embrace that uniqueness about you?

I'm thinking I'm still trying to figure it out. Okay. Again, I mean, I know that I'm a leader, you know, not just because it's in my title, but because of the, the impact and the people that are around me and the people that are influenced by what I'm doing. But I also know it just as much, I'm a follower because I want to know more about Jesse and I want to know more about Adam and Felipe and Keyan and Joe, and just, I mean, all of the people that are around me, I want you to know. I want to get everything from them so that I can be better. And so for me, it, I know that, and I know people look to me and I want to make sure I'm representing right. I want to make sure that in everything I do, and I hope that people that know me know this, but everything is, you know, genuine and transparent. And, and what my, my dad taught me a long time ago is Jennifer. If you tell the truth and you are genuine and you do the things, that you were right. You don't have to remember.

Oh, yeah.

And it was one it's such a, it's like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, but if you, if you're trying to create something that's fake, you're trying to, make somebody see something that maybe isn't real, or you're trying to, fabricate something here or there, at some point, we know how people interact in the integration of different things and how you cross paths at some point, if it's not real and it's not genuine and it's not what you really represent, it will come out. Yes. And I think, well, and I mean, you see it, we watch it when our interactions with other people. I've worked very hard to surround myself with people that, are genuine and are transparent, but I re I learned that early on. And again, it was something he taught me is gender. If you just tell the truth and you're just genuine and you're real, sometimes people aren't going to like it. They're not going to like what you say, you know, they're not gonna, they're maybe not even agree with you a lot of times. And that's okay. And I think that that's the part I've had to embrace, but if I say it to you, and I say it in a room with executives, and I say it on a project team, and then two years down the road, I'm saying the same things, because that's who I am. It doesn't matter who I'm talking to. They know that what I'm saying to them is real. And for me, for someone that's still learning and growing, if I can just be honest and genuine and transparent, and every time I talk, then I don't have to remember. You know what I said, and it's such a minor thing, but it's, it's a real thing because there's so many people that have to try to navigate and cater what they're saying to the rooms they're in and to the conversations they're having. And I think that's part of, I'm going to say my evolution, that, and you ask you to what was that point? I think wa seeing the importance of that and the value of that. I've seen it in different arenas. To replace my position, to be able to move into the position I'm in now with Robins and Morton, , we had to, we had to replace me in, Dallas for th for the position that I'd been in for 16 years. And there was a person that I had kind of reached out to, and she was not she was not in a place where she was ready to move. She was ready to change companies, but she was the person I'm like, ah, this is the, I think this is the person. And so, you know, six months later, as we're still trying to fill a position, and we'd gone around and we'd done interviews and we'd done a lot of different things to be able to fill a position that, wore a couple of hats, but it was one that had kind of been established. And so it's like, what does that look like? So I called again, I reached out to that and I ran across her at a, at an event. And I was like, Hey, I don't know where you, she actually said, Hey, you know, how, who did you hire? I'm like, we're still looking. And she, she said it was something in her that day when she asked and I said, we're still looking. She's like, well, why don't we have lunch? We had lunch and she had like 20 questions and she was, and I'm like, this is a good sign. So again, it was, you know, six months after I had reached out and she was just, wasn't in a place to move. And we had, I mean, our conversation was real. It was genuine. I put it all out there. Here's what it is. Here's what, it's not, here's what you're going to. I mean, everything. And then she's like, okay, well, can we follow up with, the vice-president who she would be reporting to. And so I set a meeting up and she sat in and had a great conversation with him. And then she came out and we talked and she's like, I mean, Jennifer, everything you said was a hundred percent accurate. I'm like, well, I mean, how does that benefit me if I'm not giving her everything right. And so she was able to one coming in, knowing what I said, it's one thing to get somebody in and just, tell them what they want to hear, because you want to get what you want, but to get her in. And then again, within, you know, a couple of months, she was in the position, she's been there almost two years and she's amazing. And it was, it, it, there's not another person that, it was the right person for that position. And it just goes back to that example of when, when you're, when you're genuine and you're transparent, , good things can happen. Oh,

Mike

drop. And so I'm going to give a shout out to Laura Hernandez because she, again, she's amazing. And she has done some amazing things and she's elevated that position as much as I was doing a thousand other things and lean and marketing, she has come in and she's even elevated the position more than what I could have even done. So she's, she's amazing. Nice,

Laura. We love you. Good job. Keep killing it. So the two year mark, it was two years ago when Laura took it and you started doing your magic.

So I, so two and a half years is when I, so there was like a six month of, nobody in the position because we wanted to get the right person. And so two and a half year, a little over two and a half years ago, I got put in the full-time position of supporting our building forward approach. And my title right now is lean practice leader.

practice leader. I, you know, I think the word practice is probably the most important word is.

I agree. And that, that was added from Robert Gambrell, who I report to when we were talking through titles and what that looks like. And I wanted to lead her in it because I felt like, you know, leaders is a huge piece of our industry and what that represents. And he has his, he's like never, we have to, we want practice in there because you're not just supporting people, you're supporting our jobs, you're supporting a lot of the things that we're doing. And so practice was a huge add to that. So I agree. I agree that it, it definitely kind of sets the tone.

It does. It's it is a practice, not it's progress, not perfection. When you get closer to excellence when you practice. Yes. Oh man. Genius.

Like, like basketball, right? Like practice. Like I have a 10 year old is playing basketball and we go out and , we're shooting and she's just like, I'm missing. I'm like, that's why we're practicing. That's why we do this. And then, okay. You're making it. And that's why we're still practicing is because, fundamentals and the foundation of anything we're doing. It's, there's never, you've never have, you'd never had a point where you're the absolute best and that you need to stop.

Oh man. So two and a half years ago, you, you started

so no, those, so two and half years ago, , I took a full-time position. Oh, to support it within Robinson Morton. Now we're going on almost six years of full fledged building forward within the company. There was just not, we have a core team that was kind of leading it. So strategically, what does that look like? How do we, what is the direction and things like that. So we had a core team of people and I was part of that core team. And so two and a half years ago, now there's a person that's kind of leading it

I see. So six years building forward was rolled out or launched and two and a half years ago, you were the tip of the spear for building forward, looking back, because I know that you've had tremendous, like remarkable impact. Could you have predicted. Where you're at now back then? No, no, wouldn't it

probably not six years ago just because I was okay, this is, this is cool. What is this? What is this? Again, two and a half years ago will really three. When I, in my mind, I really think this is something I could do. I really think this is something I can help with and I can elevate. And so just going in and having that conversation with our leaders and now, you know, have we thought about this and what does that look like and stuff like that. So I think even at that point, when we were talking through what the role could be and what it, what it is even, I think they would all say, even now it's what we thought it was going to be then. And what it is now is just, it's evolved

based on what y'all were project predicting, or maybe even expecting how far have y'all exceeded those predictions or expectations.

Oh, well, I mean, not to talk about me a little bit. Right. So I think the expectation again, we created it. It's very, very intentional that it was organic. So absolutely. It was like top down support, bottom up participation. It was very intentional from the beginning. And I think that, because it was that way you're kind of allowing, I guess the way we the way we said it is you have to walk. Okay. So I'm going to go out and say, you know, policies here. You're going to do, you have to do this tool. You have to do this, you have to do this. So we had, we started it very organic with, Hey, do you have to want to do it? And so I think through that, we saw successes and we saw, you know, but we also, I think for me, it was also those missteps and some learnings that we learned along the way, which everyone does when you're trying to implement something different and change something that very was archaic industry. But I think where we are now with metrics and what we're measuring when it comes to, they used to say quality of implementation, Adam Hoots helped me change my mindset to the maturity of what you're trying to do instead of the quality, because I think the maturity of what you're trying to create. And so I think I like that. I like that shift because you're watching, you're looking at something over time. And so quality is, you're doing it or you're not. And I think we're shifting that from what is that maturity level. And so being able to look at , the depth of it and not just are we doing it? Are we not? Because I think for me we didn't have a baseline cause we weren't really measuring. And creating that baseline and just going, Hey, here's where we are. Very basic. Yes. As in those yeses and nos and across the company in the last, , year or so, we now have wanna say, let me get the metrics right here. About 125 projects across the company about 54 project teams. So we measure it by teams and not projects and across the company. Now we can be very absolute that every one of them are measuring. Now again, we're going to be very clear measuring activity. Activities a little bit different, but you have to start somewhere. You have to have that baseline. And so being able to measure the activity of what's going on, and then now looking at what that next step is when it comes to maturity of you know, how those tools are evolving, what, what is the level of maturity? We have some that are just killing it out of the park and some that have been doing it for awhile and they just keep making it better. And we have a couple of, superintendents that have been on this journey and they just continue to push that bar higher and higher. We have some that you know, have found success and other things, and they're slowly starting to see, the things that they can impact or the things that they can add value to. And so I think what we've, what I've seen is one of the, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this now yet, but one of the missteps or one of the things that in my mind happened early on that I think now we're starting to see how it wasn't missed out, but how we can fix it. Yeah. When we rolled it out six years ago, when we started looking at the winds and the things that we're going to find that were going to help us, I think it was a huge miss to not intentionally reach out to those very experienced, successful superintendents. And, and, and, and I think we may have saw it a little bit, but what that did, because we didn't, you know, we weren't intentional. I think we weren't doing it unintentionally. I think we were just, we weren't intentional. And when you can elevate certain people and then other people, that know that they're doing good things are not, you're creating a divide. And when you create that gap and that divide, I think what over the last six years we've had to do is try to bridge that.

That beautiful background, So back to the question, you had a baseline because that's how you wrote. Yeah. And here we are two and a half years later. How amazing is it?

We're blowing it out of the park. I think we're pulling out of the park. I think we're leading the industry. And I don't think that because of me as the leader, I think that because my, my, my tribe and the people that I surround myself with are people like you that are out there in the industry. And really some of them are our competitors. Some of them are people that we go up against and, you know, my mentors, people that I talk to a lot and, you know, here's, what's working, here's, what's not, and, and there's not one conversation, and this is so hard for me. And, you know, it's so hard for me to talk about me, but there's not one conversation that I have that someone just goes, I don't even know what to tell you. Like, I don't even know how to help you because of what, what y'all been able to put in place. And, and it, and it makes you feel good for a second, but you're like, yeah, but tell me what I need to do. Like, I still need the, I missed don't need the feedback. I still need to go. Yeah. But like, there's no way we're there. And we're just this very, you know, the baseline of what we could do. And I think what we've been able to structure, and again, there's a lot of companies. I mean, you work, you've worked for one, you know, a lot of companies that have a lot of things going on, a lot of amazing things. And I think, but I think for me, the focus in, in one of the things, another one that I felt was maybe something that didn't happen at the beginning that another learning, maybe a miss that, but it was one of those that we love. We had a lot of tools. We had a long list of tools, a list of all the things that you could do, lean all the things you could do on your projects. And here's all the cool things that are going to make you work better, work smarter, be more efficient, add value, eliminate waste. Here's all the. We had no support structure to help that, to support. And so you throw tools out there and you got a couple of champions that can reach out, but you know, you've got a handful of champions that have done it and they figured it out themselves and that's great. That's wonderful. You have other people that are just like, okay, well, how do we do, what do we do? And when you don't have a support structure in place, I think that it was one of those we realized, and then we had to figure out what that looked like. And so we started out with, Hey, we'll, we'll identify champions, well, identify the champions that can help. And, and, and again, we had some, we had a group of, I think we started with 15 and ended up being like 45, but we had some champions that you go, Hey, these are people that can help. And what we found was that when someone needed help with The Last Planner We got a group of champions, so reach out to the champions and they call one of the champions and, he's like, well, my, what I'm really good at is Conditions of Satisfaction I'm really good at that. Or making , I'm not really great at last planner, but go ahead and call Josh or bill or, you know, just, those are better people. And, and, and what we realized is we were getting a lot of people that were getting frustrated because they, they didn't know where to go to get help. And I think that came up and it got surfaced and we talked about it and okay, how do we improve this? How do we make it better? Because at that point, we're looking at scaling this, company-wide, and we need to be able to put that support in. And so what we've re what, we've, what I've put in place with a lot of help from a lot of amazing people within our company is we've been very, we focused on resource teams that support tools and processes and, you know, in culture. And so we have groups of people that are very specific. To pay. If I want to know more about a Gemba walks, I'll call the Gemba walks resource group. We have theater, we have a core team person. That's a part of that. They have people that have volunteered to be a part of that group because they support it and they believe in it and they can help people coach people on it. Yep. And so being able to be very tool specific, it goes back to your question. I know you keep going good. That to me, that's part of the things that have been successful and things we've been able to put in place that, that, that structure piece has, has completely, I think, elevated our implementation, but also our kind of what we're doing across the company. And I say that because every project makes commitments and every project reports on what they're doing. And I say every, like every project.

Well, the one thing that. You're you, you touched on it and when you're seeking feedback and everybody's like, girl, I can't give you any, cause you're smoking our ass. It's the culture thing for me would just baffles me. And I'm gonna dig into your mind, not on this call, but in the future as is the structure that you've discovered or define or establishing that culture. I mean, putting resource groups together based on specific expertise in volunteering, and what'd you say top down

Bottom up participation, top down support.

Yeah. Like do it, like when you said that, like, oh, I know, I feel that I don't know what the hell it looks like or how to do it, but yes, that's exactly what I've been trying to say you, you you've established that culture and. And in the spaces that I've been in, the organizations that I worked with and the project teams that I've worked to support, the biggest challenge is the culture tools like tools almost degrade the culture

That's all, so that's below here, the environment and the behaviors are absolutely are what if that's not in place and we've talked about this, the tools that you can have short term success with tools, so you can have short term success with strategy. Hey, this project, this specific team, you can have short term successes and be like, here's what drove that success. It will not be sustained. It will not go beyond that. And once that person that is dictated, that is gone, it will fall. I mean, and I, and there's, I mean, there's nothing else you can say, but if you, if you take the leader out of it and you take the person in charge out of it and it changes, whether it's, it changes for the good, or it changes something, going back to revert to the traditional, you know, implementation. If you take that leader out, then you did not establish that environment or behavior that can be sustained

and, and you saw that you tested it, you put your finger on it and you develop the recipe to, to produce that. And that's the thing, girl, like that's the thing that everybody's scratching and clawing at because of the damn tools we all like the tools and we never really want to talk. Here's a good analogy in our industry. We don't want to talk about culture commitment. Or even psychological safety. Oh my God. We've got pissed. Some people off and we bring that one up. Well, man, talk about tools. Yeah. We'll get to talk about tools all day long.

Right? Give me the checklist. I'll

check the boxes. Yup. Yup. And it it's analogous to Jennifer talking about all the amazing things in the teams and the people she's down for that like tools. But when we want to talk about Jennifer, she's not very comfortable. What do you

think? No, you're, you're, you're absolutely right. And again, it's because everything is it. Every my goals, my, you know, my mission, my purpose, my why is about how am I elevating others? How am I encouraging others? How am I inspiring others? And again, it's, it's the question, but those are the questions I ask myself. So make sure those outward actions are. But it doesn't, it doesn't reflect on it at no point. Is that a self-reflection it's what are the, what are the actions? What needs to happen? So that I'm doing these things. Because to me that is where I bring value. That is, you know, that's I say, it's my happy place, but it's when I'm, when I'm encouraged and I'm full of energy and I'm out there being a positive force, it, it can integrate in MBA and really transfer to other people.

Yes. And it's important. So you're killing it. When the people say, I don't know what to help you. What they mean is, well, you're kicking ass and I want to be able to kick ass, like you're kicking ass. So give me feedback, tell me what I need. Well, anyways, that's what it is for me. I can't speak for everybody. Now you talked about, you mentioned earlier that you, you can't be contained and, and, and that's a good thing. And you, you shared it through the conversation. If the listener has picked up on it, you need to know Jennifer loves to learn now. So that brings me to this weird question. I'm going to fumble through it. Do, do you feel a sense of containment growing as the space to learn decreases?

Okay. So explain a little bit explaining a little bit.

Yep. So you've been on this journey of establishing and maybe not even establishing creating culture and you've got a lot of reps and it's working. You have a, you have an outline, you have a plan, follow the plan and boom, it works. So there was a lot of learning that you had to have experience experiments and failures and all that good stuff to get to this recipe that works consistently. So now the learning has gotten small, has the opportunity to learn has gotten smaller and as that opportunity to learn and discover gets smaller. Does your feel around being contained? Does that increase proportionately?

I think so. I don't know if contained at that point. It's the limitations. I think for me a little bit different than contained cause contained is like there's there's no, you can't get out. Right. Thanks for me. The limitation, the limitations of. As I go and I reach those goals and I accomplish the things. Right. I get that information, I think then it's like the, okay. Okay. What's next? And I think for me that the what's next and what does that look like? Again, I don't know, but I don't think I knew, you know, five years ago or two years ago whenever what that was either. So it doesn't, it's scary only because you know, it it's, it's always been scary. And, and that doesn't stop me, but it also gets you thinking, okay, I'm doing this, but then how does that then impact this? And how does that, what, what can, what's next to be able to continue to elevate? You know, we know you never meet reached mastery, you know, you're never going to get to that point where it's perfection. And so, and we know we're, we're just getting started, for us, some of the people in the company have been on this journey for 10 years and they've been doing stuff there's some that are, you know, that are still coming into it for the first time. So, you know, we know that first five or 10 years, you're still figuring things out anyway. And then as things evolve and as things grow, you're still, I guess that's the greatest thing for me about lean and in what we're doing and building forward is it's, it's continuing. Like, even for me that, okay, I've got those, I got those got certified God, this got, you know, I'm able to do these things, you know, but it's, it's always, there's something else. There's something else to be able to, to, to figure out, you know, I've got a group of people now that got me on to clubhouse, which you know, which is new for, you know, for me, it's new, it's like a week and a half in, and I've gone in and I, , I'm starting to watch and I'm just like, oh my God. I mean, that's, to me, like that was something that I didn't even know existed. And then it's there and now the learning that's been able to be there for me. That was huge because of the need for that, for the learning and listening to other people. Because for me, you know, I'm doing way more listening than I am talking. And when I'm listening, I'm learning. Yes. And so for me, I think that was a, that was a huge one.

So I'm going to plant the seed to, to challenge you. You love to learn via listening. And that's part of the reason why you try to minimize your talking. And I love that. Like, that's a very simple, but super damn difficult thing to do, but you have tremendous amount of goodness that people need to learn are dying to learn. And the only way they're going to learn it, sister is by you talking more. And I understand that that's a challenge, which is what to put that out there. And, and we're learning, it keeps coming up. And so here comes the, the, the fans only question, what learning have you had, and I'm sure there's a bunch of them, but what learning have you had as a result of a tremendous or painful mistake?

There's, there's a big one and I think I'm still figuring it out, but I think at least I have I've acknowledged it and I can at least go into the conversation Here I am again. Ruining the Surprise . good. You gotta hit us up on thePatreon.com/LearningsandMissteps Good appreciate your support. Back to this show.

vetting it through different eyes. Yes. That is a powerful idea. I'm going to get a tattoo of that right here on my neck tattoo. It says vetted through different eyes. maybe not wear

on your neck,

so you talked about the next generation and which will bring us to the final, maybe the final question. How do you intend to transform the world going forward?

I thought about this because you gave me, you gave me a little bit of heads up. And so for me, the more that I'm learning, the more that I'm trying to lead, you know, sometimes I'm doing a good job of it sometimes not so good. I feel like what kept coming through is and this is going to be a hashtag I'm sure. It's going to be what are the ripples of impact that I'm leaving? And so for me, it, it's so easy to get caught up in that immediate response or that immediate, you see, you leave a room and you are on fire. You're floating because of what's happened right there in that room and you are speeding you and it's exciting, you, you know, and then I'm part of conversations. It's like, yeah, I posted this or I had this conversation and nobody said it. Nobody responded. You know, I say I open it. I have an open-ended question in a room and they're just staring at me and it's so easy to get caught up in those moments where it's like, I didn't make the, I didn't make the point I was supposed to, I didn't make, I didn't reach, what I was supposed to do. It must not have been impactful because, nobody said anything. And what I've realized after the fact, even through this journey of six years or two and a half years after the fact is those little seeds are happening. Those rocks that are, you know, going across the water and those ripples are going in and going and going. It's like those, the ripples of impact that are happening, we have to believe it. And if not that we don't even need to be doing what we're doing. We have to believe that, when we're saying things and when we're doing things and when someone. What we're doing and having the engagement and being able to see and observe, even from the background, they don't want to, you don't want to jump in. They don't want to, whatever that, that, that those ripples of impact are happening. And I think for me, elevating people, you know, that's, that's my goal. And elevating, inspiring, encouraging people to, to keep doing what they're doing, finding those little silent heroes out there and being able to elevate them. But really what are we doing that, , are leaving those ripples of impact that, we leave the job, we leave the project site. We have a conversation and we're touching people on social media, whatever those things are. And then it's over and we're going back to our day jobs and we're going back to our families and then what's happening outside of that. And I'm just seeing more conversations or comments, or I show up somewhere. I was, I was down in Florida a couple of months ago. One of our our leaders, our vice presidents and his wife were there and we were talking and they have two, two sons in our, in our company , and I've interacted with him at different times. And I was talking to to him, you know, at the in Florida. And she was just like, Jennifer, my boy always love you. And I'm like, eh, they do. And, and, and I think the moment, because again, I only interacted with one of them, a little, the other one, a little bit more, but they're still very young project engineer, field engineers in our country. And, you know, for, for a mother to, so they go home and they, they have a comment or they talk about something. And for her to say that to me in my mind, it's like, you have no idea, the ripples of impact you're having and what, how that's going to influence what they're saying and what they're doing. And even the conversations that having. And so if we'll meet that, that's, it's not about saying it's a mic drop, but that's, to me that that's when it comes down,

And for the listeners out there that that may be missing it, there is a responsibility we have because everybody we touch, we will impact them. It may, you may not see it right now and in the moment, get over yourself. Right. Let go of that need or want to have people say, oh my God, you, you changed my world with what you just said. Cause it's coming, it's coming it the hashtag ripples of impact.

But I want to make sure we add to that. Even the ones that are coming at you with either yeah, but, or an attack or that'll never happen. You've stirred something in them for them to have to say something. Yes. Yeah. And it don't, don't take again. That's how I look at it. So even if it's like, I poke the bear and you know, sometimes they're just like, whatever, they just don't have time to be bothered. But if I poke them and they come, come back and they, they respond something in them, made them feel like they needed to get engaged. And in my mind, that's the first thing that has to happen. Cause if you don't have the engagement, then it doesn't matter what the conversation.

And they're telling you by default, they're telling you what they need to get there. Yes. They they're giving us the recipe of how to get there reconciling wait a minute. What? Nope. Yeah, but it'll never work because X really they're saying, how could I make that work? Because I've always had this problem. They're telling you the problem. Help them with the

problem. Yes. Or they'll give you their, their solution and it, and again, it may not be your solution and it may not even be in your mind the best solution, but if they're coming at you with, well, here's, here's a better way. Here's what, even though in your mind, it doesn't conform to what you're trying to do. It, it does. Cause if they're, if they're engaging and they're sharing something that even if it kind of takes it off this direction, it, it, again, you said something earlier on changing the culture. I, I feel that it's not changing the culture. I feel like my role is fostering the cultures because there have been some good there's some good cultures. There's some good things that have been put in place that were there before I came to beak. And there were successes that happened because of some great, amazing leaders. And so my job is not to go in and go, oh, this isn't working. Let me change it. It's okay. What are the, what are the nuggets here? And the things that we want to, we want to foster and we want to feed and we want to elevate to make it.

I love it because it is a partnership. It's not you coming in and doing it. It's how do we all contribute to making that thing happen? Yes, because the

goal is when I'm not the answer, I can feel the fire. I can ask questions. I can help kind of get some subsist started, but I won't be on all 125 of our projects. I won't be a part of all 54 or 5 55 of our project teams I want. And so if I, when I leave, it still has to, something still has to be going on and happening. So I can be, I can be a spark, but I can not be the fuel. That's continually feeding it to make it, to make it be what it should. . Jesse: Well, Ms. Jennifer, did you have fun? I did. And I, and I survived and I survived. Yes, I did. And I feel good and it, and I feel like we talked about some rules. Really cool things. And I think that again, every time I talk to you that happens, but my anxiety is way lower than it was when we started. I appreciate that.

Good. Was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we missed?

I don't think so, because I think everything we talked about was way more than I anticipated in any way, but I feel like you tapped into a couple of things. I just, again, I mean, you know, I love what we do. I love that our industry, and I know that, I mean, our goal is to, is to, is to better the industry. And I think the biggest piece that I've learned , working in an industry that traditionally what we've held high is hold the things that are amazing and that we're doing so different than the rest of the world. So close so that we can be the best. At what we're trying to do and trying to make sure that we, that we hold it because we it's a secret and we don't want anybody else to, to, to grab it and take it. And then the other is, if we screw up and we make a mistake, put it under the rug, you don't want it. You don't want to talk about those things because then somebody can hold you, hold it against you. And I think what we've done is we completely flip that upside down is number is, is, is I am getting the best advice and the best ideas. And even, how to help with some of my issues or some of my problems or some of the things roadblocks that I come across from the people out, outside of my company, that work for my competitors. And it's amazing because I say, I say competitors, cause that's what people understand. But my, some of my best friends, you know, are people that, their firms are going after projects that we're going after. And that's okay because we are not going to improve the entire industry by people and by company. If I just focus on one person or industry's not going to get better. If I even focus on my company, if Robins and Morton can be the best we can be, it will not better the entire industry. Right. But if we can do it all together, all of us together, all of our companies together, trying to, to change a mindset and trying to change the way we approach, people, then it will, it will make it.

Well. I want to join you on that adventure. Yes. You've got to share. We've got to share it and we'll get there. What did I tell you? Now what you didn't get. If you're only listening to the podcast is you didn't get to take her beaming smile in. So hit us up on YouTube. Cause that's growing, we've got some subscribers coming in. We're even starting to get some likes. Thank you all for helping us grow far beyond what we ever expected to, and because of y'all support, things are starting to build up out in that podcast world. Keep an eye out on July 30th and 31st hit up. Share your pod.com. Uh, I'm going to be speaking for a little bit, Sharon, you know, uh, our story, our journey with this podcast and, it is y'all that are given me the confidence to just put myself out there and we'll see what happens now. Time for some recognition. This dude, I'm going to meet him in person. By the time this episode airs you straight up gangster, man, he's out there making it happen. His name is Steve Turner. He's the founder of Bring Back the Trades. Steve Turner says I've actually been listening to them. And I love them. He's talking about us rather. He's talking about the episodes, but I like to think just us. I love that it's real trades people you're interviewing. I'm working really hard to get the younger individuals energized about the trades and letting them know that college isn't their only choice straight up, Steve, like I got your back, man. Anything we can do? I know that we're going to be connecting deeply through the skilled trades Alliance. So heads up L and then family keep an eye out for that skilled trades Alliance, because we about to make something happen. We're about to begin celebrating, elevating and recognizing all the amazing CTE programs, employers, employees, journeymen educators, like the whole thing, man, it's going to take all of us to connect and make this thing really high thanks again. And we'll see you soon.