Insights on Leadership and Purpose with Chief Mountain Mover Kevin Carey

People see the glitz and glam, they see the highlight reel penetrating the surface of water. They don't see all the work and the struggle and the failures, the misfires, the career limiting decisions, the discomfort, insecurity. All of that is under the water, but it is absolutely there. You just can't see it.

I will say if you're lucky, it's under the tip of that iceberg, to your point. We were talking about this offline. Some people are just the tip of the iceberg and if they don't have that base foundation under them, should you be following them? If they went through it, who are you following? I think you posted about it the day we're recording this. Like the people you're following are they walking the talk? And so everybody has foundations, but what you're preaching does it match that foundation?

That was the chief mountain mover, mr Kevin Kerry, and I'm going to tell you right now this conversation part one and part two, are super packed with leadership thoughts, leadership nuggets, maybe even leadership advice. The most important part is it all comes from real life practice, like this dude went through it. He's a CEO, he's an author, he's just an all around OG baller and this conversation you're going to get some insight into the value of having a mindset of service, like serving others, believe it or not. We actually talk about vulnerability I say that jokingly because you already know that all about the vulnerability game and so is Kevin's. We actually he shares a bunch about early on, what it was like to go from you know tough and making things happen and barreling through things to actually becoming a vulnerable human being and then leading through vulnerability. I'm going to leave a link down in the show notes and I highly recommend that you go and sign up for it, but only only if you value inspiration, motivation and thoughts that are going to get your brain moving, because Kevin sends out a daily email and I think it's just during the week a daily email that's intended to help you move the mountains that you're dealing with. But before we get into all of that goodness. I want to give a shout out to LNM family member, mr Josh Lubcker. Josh sent me a message and I probably should have gotten his permission to share this, but you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. He sent me a message afterwards and he said thank you for the conversation this morning. It felt like I was part of it, not just watching it. That is exactly what we are going for. We want to have a conversation with everybody that shows up on that live stream. The real, real truth is the only reason that live stream has is as good or as meaningful as it has been is because of the comments and the ideas and the questions that the audience shares the no BS tribe. So shout out, no BS tribe for helping us keep that alive. We're coming up on two years of doing this thing every other Saturday. So you get a chance on Saturday morning. Check us out no BS with Jen and Jess. And here we go with Mr Kevin Carey. Oh man, what is going on? Lnm family? I'm like ultra excited I got to meet Kevin. Mr Kevin Carey. How you doing, kevin?

Doing great. Jesse, thanks for having me on my man oh man, I'm excited.

So you don't know this and I know the LNM family doesn't know this, but I learned about you before I met you in person. I was out on a job and it was good. I didn't read your phone number in the port of party. I promise I was out on a job in the DFW area. I just his name just jumped out of my head. Anyways, he's QC manager who told me he's like dude, you got to meet Kevin. I'm like who's Kevin? He's like you got a podcast. He used to be our boss. He's like super motivating and super like passionate. I'm like damn okay. And then we got to meet in person at the DFW COP thing that Joe and Jen and Keon put together and I was like that's the guy. Yeah, I could feel it. The energy came across and so like how does that make you feel, knowing that the first touch that I had regarding you was a positive and inspirational touch?

It's honoring and flattering and I would say rare, because I feel like one of the many things our industry does poorly is letting good news travel. It's usually like your status as a specialty contractor no news is super Right Like that means you're probably in the clear, and it's usually like let's rag on some folks. And that's an interesting one too, because it was from a former company, so you'd think I would be the phone number in the drawings on the Portapotti status. So that warms my heart a little bit to know that at least somebody was positively impacted by cross and pass with me, which is the purpose of life, yeah man, it's all one thing.

I got to read your book Mountain Move. I didn't read it, I call it reading, so in Jesse Landon counts. It was audio book I love audio, for sure. And what really resonated with me because I worked towards having the same mindset, which is a mindset of service and serving others, and that came through chapter after chapter and then back to that first time contact right. What I learned in your book and we'll get into the book was that there was probably a time where your name should have been on the Portapotti. How accurate is that?

Oh, it probably was it actually my ego would tell me it should be there, but I wasn't nearly important enough to even make the Porta John, if that makes sense. But yes, my come up includes a lot of stuff. That includes being very selfish and self-centered and not owning anything in the mirror. So, yes, radical shift from where I was to where I am today. But I'm also thankful for them because it wouldn't have made who I am today. I needed those failures and self-centeredness and all that.

Of course, those were the ingredients to make the chief mountain mover that you are today. You talked about the come up. I know you look at your LinkedIn profile and listen to the podcast. Your author podcast host. You operate a business or you own the business and you run a community and help others discover how to move their own mountains. Was that part of your 5, 10, 15 year plan? All of those outcomes?

Absolutely not. If you go back to childhood I was trying to reflect on this a little bit I didn't really have many aspirations because I always had a very low ceiling over my life. I didn't think too big. I wasn't a big visionary. But when I did think about what would I like to do or be when I grow up, it wasn't a constructor, it wasn't to be in construction. That was my default fall back to plan. I think pediatrician was one that I love to help kids. Then I found out you need about a dozen years of school, several hundred thousand dollars, and you need to be the smartest in your class. I'm like all right, I'm going to wave bye-bye to that opportunity. I have a good buddy you might know him in the industry Tyler Burns. I didn't realize this until he said it, but people make career limiting decisions in their lives. I feel like I made quite a few of those. To fall backwards into construction. From a little kid I would be hammering nails with a 2x4 because my dad was a construction worker. He would just do that to keep me busy and keep me occupied. Yeah, since a little kid I would keep getting drawn back to construction and keep trying to pull away, man. I fell backwards into it because of some limiting decisions, but I'm so thankful for it. Back then I equated the industry I was going into quite honestly as failure.

Coming into construction was missing.

the target yes, I wasn't planning on going to college by any stretch of the imagination. I had hookups. I was in the Chicago area and the union's very strong there. It's all relationship. It's almost like mafiasque. You've got to know somebody to get in that somebody, can I tell you, to a journeymanship. I had several of those ends and it was going to be either that or the military. I had a very tough conversation with my parents and they gave me basically an ultimatum apply for college or else type thing. I popped my buddy in English class. His name was Jake. I'm like, hey, jake, where are you going to college? Man? He's like Illinois State. I'm like, cool, I'll get an application. That was my selection process because I didn't think by any stretch of the imagination that I would get into the school. And I applied and I got in. I'm like I guess I'm going to college now. I was like, oh okay, union trade's construction gone After getting out of college, figure out, oh nope, I'm getting right back into it. Dabbled a little bit of outside of the industry but just kept finding my way back and now fast forward to today. I totally understand why, but in the moment it felt like failure, it's my fallback, it's my comfort level. I used to be in the field, now I'm on the office side. It's relatable. I know I can do it, type thing.

Yeah, kevin, I feel that to my bones. When I decided to not go to school and stay in plumbing, I knew for me it was the best place for me to be. If I had a choice of parties to go to, it was the only party I wanted to go to. It was all the way up until my third year of apprenticeship, where I finally started being proud of my decision. Those first three years I was embarrassed. What did I hear? Man, you're wasting your potential and you could do so much more. All my friends were in university because I have a group of super smart friends. Yes, I'm a closet nerd, but I chose the trades because it was the perfect conditions for me to thrive in. I didn't know it then, but that's why I picked it, but it didn't feel like a smart idea. Now, looking back, it was a pretty damn good decision.

Oh, and I could go on forever about that. That's why I'm doing all the things that you mentioned at the beginning, because I may have fallen backwards into it. When you find the beauty within this industry, it could transform your life in such a positive way. I want to make sure more and more people understand that and get that opportunity, because when we change people's hearts in this industry and change their mindsets that it's bigger than hammers and nails, we can move the needle in this industry and create more opportunities, like you and I have had in this journey to yes, we've fallen backwards into it type thing, but thank God we did, and there's a lot of people outside looking in on that. That. How do we create more of those?

Oh man, 100%. So you talked about career limiting decisions, and you're not the only one that's made those right, or maybe at the time it felt like it was and turned out it wasn't. I think that's what I'm sensing here. What are some of the takeaways that the LNM family member out there that might be wondering is this one of those career limiting decisions? If you've got a few to draw from, what's a takeaway that you could share that other people can put in their pocket and pull it out when they need it?

Oh man, Just if you're even wrestling with the decision, that might be an indicator of what you should do or not. And the way you form habits good ones and bad ones is the repetitiveness of them, and so the bad habits I was choosing. The more I would do them, the more okay I would be with them and I wouldn't have that wrestling, that tug of war, right, like I wouldn't wonder. Is this a bad thing? Doesn't matter, it's who I am, it's my identity. It's no big deal If we're talking childhood and stuff tethering it to a purpose. Most people don't really understand that at that age. But if you're an adult and you're wrestling with decisions like how does this serve my future? How does this serve my family's future, if I'm choosing to do this and I'm on the fence at it, maybe you can ask at what cost? And so if you don't like the answer to at what cost, maybe you need to stop. And, quite honestly, we do a really bad job of this, of opening up to people and getting it out of your head. And if you're wrestling with something big, a big choice, a big decision, a big fork in the road in your life, you don't have to do that alone. There's professional help that you could get. There's friends that care about you. There's family. It might only be one of those three for you, but there's somebody available for every single person out there, and so don't wrestle with it alone. Your intuition is pretty strong, so if you're feeling like it's telling you not to go, don't go and see if it's serving you well in a purpose that is worth standing for.

Oh man. So the question that you posed was at what cost, which to me is a gigantic question. I was on a different kind of career path for a long time, because I want to get the promotion and I want the next role and I want all of that. But it's in it, but at what cost? I'm having to suppress and sacrifice the things that give me the most joy. It's not worth it. Now, that was the thing for me. And then you mentioned the fork in the road, and it reminds me of Yogi Berra quote when you find the fork in the road, take it, because there's a fork. Doesn't tell you which way to go, but make a decision and learn from it. I think one important thing is we can always be evaluating the outcomes of our decisions, but we got to make the decision, yes, and accessing resources, people to help inform that decision is like a gangster cheat code for sure. Now, in reading your book, I got the sense that your very system and process oriented. Is that true?

It is because it creates freedom in my life and if that makes sense, like it's not something that comes natural to have like process. I'm not naturally kept in SOP and all that sort of stuff but when I find my routine and lay out these steps and have processes, it increases my capacity and makes more things automatic in my life so I can think more clearly, I can think ahead on things. I could grow into the capacity that I'm in and so it's rip off jocco. It's discipline equals freedom. Regardless if you're a process person or routine person, let's say you're a free spirit type personality, you still want processes and routines to create that freedom, to be your free spirit, if I make it like it's your deep work. For others it might be their shallow work that they need to put the deep work in on reverse in those. But it's to each their own type of deal. But yes, routines have changed my life.

Man. So here's an interesting thing, and you heard me say it earlier I'm a closet nerd. I completely understand the value of systems and processes and having standards etc. And I got that from the sense that you were the same mindset from reading your book, and we refer to it as being nerdy, which nerdy is not necessarily a positive connotation to anything. Why do you do that? Why do I do the routines? There was a couple of times in the book when you talk about your spreadsheets and different things that you keep to keep track as nerdy Like you talk about the system Awesome thing. That's obviously contributed to your career and the way you contribute in deep and meaningful ways. And then there's a slight but I'm a nerd. Where does that? Where do you think that comes from?

I guess trying to flip the script on that word, like you've just claimed it a couple times on this podcast, only 15 minutes in To me it's a term of endearment. That's a badge. I'm a super nerd. And not only am I a super nerd, I'm a super weirdo and I think that's a completely cool thing. And man, there's this kid at youth ministry that he was telling me a couple of weeks ago. I was like what do you like to do? And he's like man, I hate to admit this, but I play. I don't remember the name of the game, but I play this harvesting game where I just farm online and it's pretty nerdy. I can't even believe. I told you that I'm like that's awesome. If that makes you happy and fulfilled, own it. And I feel like the South side of Chicago come up like yeah, you got picked on pretty heavily, you had to be ruthless, you had to have sharp corners and there's no room for nerd. That's incorrect. We're all nerds. It's just like what do we nerd out on? Hopefully it's a good thing and a progressive thing and a value add to society thing. It's not the opposite.

Oh, I love it. So it's changing. Flipping the script on it, yeah owning it.

I will only call myself that, like I'm willing to look in the mirror and own who I am, whether it's a good thing, bad thing or indifferent. And yeah, I think being an urge is a great thing.

Yeah, I think that's an important point from our listeners out there, in that we all have way more influence than we're even aware of. Some of us are trying to build influence on purpose and our actual influence exceeds our awareness like 100% and we can leverage that right and I think that's what you're doing by saying, yeah, I'm a nerd, I do nerdy stuff because this is positive stuff, this is helpful stuff, and I'm celebrating that. You talked about, or you use the word or something to the effect of vulnerability. In my head it landed as vulnerability and you talked about the come up with rough edges or sharp edges. What have you learned about vulnerability and how did the sharp edges keep you from being vulnerable?

Oh man, such a great question. Vulnerability is such a superpower and I waited to the brink of suicide before I was willing to be vulnerable with somebody and tell them hey, man, I need some help. And so that fork in the road that we were talking about earlier, it was gun in hand, blow my brains out or message my buddy Jeff. That was the fork. And that was the first time, first real time, I would say, where, in a crisis, I decided to raise the proverbial hand and say I don't got this, I'm in trouble, and thank God that Jeff, my buddy Jeff, stepped in that moment. And there's a big God moment that happened when finding out writing the book that six months prior to him stepping in to help me, he had another close friend reach out to him and he wasn't able to act on and that friend died. So as soon as I reached out to him, this was his like redemption moment. I'm going all in, I'm going to help, but that was. It took me to the brink of dying to finally ask for some help and even still, this is back in 2014. I go away for three weeks and at this moment I'm living in DFW. Fly out to California, go there for three weeks, come back, I didn't tell soul, nobody still. So there was that one moment of vulnerability that's, quite honestly, saved my life. But then I put it back in the vault because I got this I'm tough, I'm strong, I don't want to dump my problems on other people. It wasn't until this book, really, that the floodgates open on the vulnerability. Because I was scared. I was scared of that word, I was scared of showing my weakness, because before, before sharing it, you feel like you're a loser, you feel like you're alone, you feel like you're not enough. And then, the more you share it, you find out that you're not alone, you're, you're not a loser. And there's people out there that not only respect you for sharing that, but they respect you at a higher level than before you opening up in vulnerability. So I had people literally tell me like Kev, I've always had you right here. Now that you've shared that, you're right here. But in our minds we think that formula is the opposite. We open up about our tragedies or tough things, or things that we think we're only wrestling with and we think everybody's going to abandon us and that's all on our head and that's what holds us back. And so there's this giant leap to start the book with that story and, man, I could tell you, even printing it, like once it went live, I was like, oh man, this is going to be, ugly. Yeah, I'm not going to get work anymore in the industry and again, quite the opposite, because my stories everybody's got a different story but you can relate to whatever your mountains are and those were my mountains, that I had to move in my life and get ready for the next series of mountains but everybody can relate to. It might not be addiction and drugs and stuff like that. It might be whatever it is for them. That's relatable. And you hear people, all the viral videos and the influencers out there that vulnerability is a superpower. They're right in that regard if they're actually sharing what their vulnerability is. But it is a superpower because, like routines, it equals a lot of freedom in your life, man.

Yes, I think most of the folks know vulnerability. I'm with you on that the same fear about putting it in a book. I'm over, I think, seven years and four months sober. Congratulations, man, thank you, thank you. And my mom when she read my book she was like me I'm worried about you. I was like why she says you put all your stuff out there? And what if people don't want to work with you? Like, wow, I never thought of that, thanks for that. But it's all true, right, like none of it is false and it gives people the opportunity to make a better decision. I may not be the kind of person that they want with their people, or I may be the exact person that they want with their people, but the vulnerability thing, the healing that comes with it, the growth, the self-discovery that comes with being vulnerable, I don't know that I could have had the growth that I've had without vulnerability. Now I'm wondering, because I know what the answer is for me. But the state that you were in before making that phone call, everything was at your fault. You were in charge of everything. Why did, why were you on that operating system? Society, lack of awareness, lack of awareness.

Not great mentors in my life. Not finding the right tribes is a cultivation of a lot of things. Lies that I have to have it all together. And I would also answer. There's a big thing that I stand for in the book. It's, after that, opener the purpose solar system. So like purpose, finding your why and all that. What is the sun of your solar system? So something so big that the other planets of your life can revolve around that. And my son then, when everything came crashing down, was work was my son? Like chasing title, chasing raises, promotions. I want to be the guy and I will close down the office because I want to put my social security number in there into the alarm clock because just in case the CEO checks he knows that it's my passcode, shutting that thing down. I'm telling you, I am grinding. So if work is my son, then you can't fit family in there, you can't fit faith in there. Those are planets that revolve around something small. It justified the behavior that I was doing on the weekends because, since I was still killing it at work, there was no problems at work, because I could shake off the rust from a heavy weekend of partying and then just go right back to work. It not only justified it, but it enhanced it, because it was like I am getting promoted and I am getting raises and recognition. Cool, no money, no problems. I'm going to keep partying, partying harder, and not realizing that there's so much more to life and there's such a bigger sun to your solar system that you can have beyond work that all planets can revolve around. But it took having some false suns in my journey in order to figure out what that sun truly is today.

Oh man, so the solar system concept in your mountain mover manual. When I'm listening to it, I'm like man, this dude just created all these things, sat down one day and decided to write a map for people to live by. I'm wondering is that exactly how it happened? Or how did you come to articulate the transition in terms of the solar system and not just the solar system concept? You also have the totem pole concept and there's some other things in there that are like super awesome frameworks for a transformational experience. So pick whichever you like, but can you describe the evolution or the way those things came to be super clear? And here's why because what I have often caught myself doing and I know people that I support get in this idea that I'm just not as talented or as smart as you because you had a silver bullet. I'll never have a silver bullet, and I know for me it took a lot to get there. So can you describe what that progression is?

Yeah, it's a great concept because that the book and all the chapters of totem pole, the goal, achieving routines, purpose solar system, that is, the cultivation of years and years of discovery, that what am I going to do here? Okay, I need to focus this. So I'm going to, I'm going to move this to the prefrontal cortex. Like I need to solve purpose and specifically on purpose solar system, I call it gym visions. So one of my routine things in the morning I'm going to the gym before work and it's not so much for body anymore than it is my mindset, and I get to wrestle through some stuff at that gym. Like I will go in there and say we need to solve x today and we is in. I'm looking at the lunatic in the mirror, I'm talking to myself and then I bring this stuff in and that season I was wrestling, whatever it was like. How do I articulate a why and purpose? And then all of a sudden, boom, I call it gym vision, purpose solar system came in my mind and this is before the book was even a thought. I went straight to work, I feverishly wrote it up on the whiteboard at my office and then I just started talking about it and I've been doing these daily motivation emails for shoot seven, eight years now and get to try those things out and I'm always the student before the teacher and anything I send out right. So like I wrestle with this, I'm like man that might help somebody. Boom, I'm going to send it out to people. And so it was that it was the routine at a different gym vision or a time that I was wrestling with something goal achieving, like all of these sort of things start coming together. And then mentorships, man. So one of our mutual friends, keon, like he probably he's so sick of me calling him out on on my phone Because he hates that. I know. You know that was too bad, keon. He's the one that saw the vision of a book because he was on that daily motivation list and all that. He's like dude, you got a book in you. And then it's like that reflection time of taking all of these concepts into chapters and then you're like, wait a minute, this could impact positively, impacts in life. So if the son of my solar system is building an army of mountain movers that starts with the power of one, if one person picks up this book and is positively impacted, you don't know how many people they're going to impact, and that's the beauty of exponential impact. It feels overbearing when you think like, how do you change the world? An army of mountain movers starts with one. How do you get to the next person? And that's why I like the ing and building, because I'm never there. It's always the next person, so there's always fuel in the tank to go get them. But yes, that wasn't like, okay, I'm going to write a book, now let me get this, and then you come up with the concepts. Very backwards it was. I have all these concepts rolling. Maybe we should put them in a book.

The one thing I want people to take away from that is it only looks like we know what we're doing Right, like the path to this point. Jennifer Lacey has a nice slide that she uses in her presentations and it's the iceberg People see and you and I were talking about this before we started recording people see the glitz and glam. They see the highlight reel penetrating the surface of water. They don't see all the work and the struggle and the failures, the misfires, the career limiting decisions, the discomfort, insecurity all of that is under the water, but it is absolutely there. You just can't see it.

I will say, if you're lucky, it's under the tip of that iceberg To your point. We were talking about this offline. Some people are just the tip of the iceberg and if they don't have that base foundation under them, should you be following them If they went through it? Who are you following? I think you posted about it the day we're recording this. Like the people you're following are they walking the talk? And so everybody has foundations, but what? What you're preaching does it match that foundation or is there some overcoming there? Like you got to be cautious. Who you follow.

So on that, the folks that are like that tip of the iceberg type people. If somebody is in that state of mind right now, what should they expect?

Where they're just building up right now. If it's a rough season, I would just say this too shall pass. If you're in a really tough season, like people ask me, would you go back and change anything? When it comes to that fork in the road and there were several times in my life that aren't in the book that I thought my life was over and little did I know that it was the base of that iceberg that's being built, because they're showing me what not to do and where that takes you and the career limiting decisions and all that. So if you're in a really tough season, just know that there's hope, know that there's light, know that there's help. And it's called seasons for a reason. When we are in the valleys of life, we just take that, for whatever reason, when we're going through it, that's just, that's everything. And that's why we need outside counsel to tell us. The feedback we get sometimes is you just need to hold on and it's like yeah, that sounds simple, but it is that simple. That's why we need that simple advice for people. And same rule applies if you're in a season of blessing, you're on the peak man, everything's going your way, freaking, cherish it. Cherish it, enjoy it. Figure out what tactics got you there to see how long you can prolong staying at that peak. But no, you're not going to stay there forever. Trials are going to come and how are you prepared for them? Because we all have different journeys. That might have taller peaks and deeper valleys, but whatever you're walking through is your tallest peak. So comparisons to thief of joy like you might not have this wild, ridiculous story, but you're going to be there. But your peak is your peak and my peak is my peak. And they feel the same weight. Regardless of our come up, regardless of our past, regardless of our experiences. You're shaping a story to hopefully positively impact people once you pull through it.

The fact that my peak and your peak feel the same. I think that's an important idea that'll help us stay away from chasing the highlights right, chasing the polish, chasing all the stuff, bro, like we don't have to have the same metrics. We can both be at the top of our game at different elevations, but we're at the top. Enjoy that, because it took work to get there and the season will pass, because they always pass. Now I feel like I'm getting, like I weaseled my way into a free sample of what you offer in your mountain movers community. Can you share a little bit about that, because I know that L&M family out there. They're about growth, self-discovery and community. What is that? What should somebody expect or be ready for if they were to jump into that?

So the daily motivations easy to sign up on. You just go to wwwmountainmoverarmycom completely free, you just fill out the subscription page and it's just your email. And you just get an email from me right around 4 or 4.15 am Each weekday and it's whatever topics burn and whatever one I'm wrestling with or whatever one I hear from church, and just my ears always to the ground of what is that next wisdom nugget that I want to share. And the beautiful thing about that community is that as it gets larger, they're serving it and sending. Hey, I'm reading this book, check this out, I'm like using that tomorrow. It comes from a million different sources and it's a consistency piece too. People are counting on it. It's an accountability measure for me to continue, go learn. And again, always the student before the teacher. And just because I'm sharing it doesn't mean I have it all together. I'm pretty quick to tell you how often I fail, including in those daily motivations, because there are a lot of times that I don't separate work from home and I bring my work self home, and that needs to be a different person. And there's just a million things that I wrestle with that I'm sure if I'm wrestling with it, other people are, and I'm just willing to share it. And so you have hundreds of people on the list and the power of one. There's usually one or two people every single day that said that that one was mine and it's a different person every single day, and that's that. If I know this will make sense to you, jesse. That is the fuel to the tank, because there's so many times you're like, is this worth it? And then boom, somebody's like you have no idea how much I need to hear that today and it's just a wink from God. But keep going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you and I were talking about it right, the podcast. Life is work, and the thing that keeps it being amazing is, every now and then somebody says that conversation, that person, that thing you said really helped me and it's oh, damn it. Okay, I'm not going to give up, I'm going to keep doing this thing. And this, the mountain mover concept I think that's now the name of your company. So you have a construction company named Mount Mover, you've written the book and I think you do public. So how big is this mountain mover concept? Oh man, ain't that dirty how I like to ask a question and then come in and say, oh, come back next week. Yeah, I know it is, but I'm going to do it anyways. So much goodness in this conversation and I promise, pinky promise, part two of this conversation has just as much depth and meaning throughout the whole thing. So if this landed with you, share it with your people, cut it up into clips, post, comment all of those amazing things, because Kevin is the type of leader that we need to be supporting and we need other leaders to see that there's actually an example out there of a human being that is doing very meaningful things and running a business. Speaking of running a business, we got to give a shout out to this episode sponsor, which is Sweat Equity Improvement. What's that? Sweat Equity Improvement is a virtual learning where people are learning how to improve production, improve safety, improve quality by redesigning the work to better serve the men and women that are doing the work. And, for clarity, I'm talking about trade installation like electrical plumbing, piping, sheet metal, and the list goes on. If you're interested in learning a method to improve the work, scale those improvements. That also helps you become a more empathetic and compassionate leader. Sweat Equity Improvement is for you Now. If you don't like getting your hands dirty and interacting with the people that are actually out there making things happen, this class ain't for you. Be cool and we'll talk at you next time. Peace.