June 13, 2024

Legal Insights, Metaphysical Perspectives, and Parental Support with Construction Risk Strategist Megan Shapiro

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon
Season 3

Unlock the secrets to effective risk management in construction litigation with Megan Shapiro, an attorney with nearly 15 years of experience in the field. Megan shares invaluable insights on how to leverage past litigation to refine future practices, emphasizing the crucial role of documentation in dispute avoidance and litigation preparedness. For anyone navigating the labyrinthine world of construction law, her practical advice and expert knowledge are indispensable.

But Megan is not just about legalities – she brings a fascinating blend of passions to the table, integrating her interest in astrology and crystals with her professional life. Listen as she humorously recounts her "holiday blindness" and discusses how strategic thinking in law complements her metaphysical pursuits. This episode offers a unique perspective on how seemingly unrelated interests can enrich one's professional and personal life.

We also take a stroll down memory lane, reflecting on the importance of parental support in shaping a successful legal career. Megan fondly remembers her parents' involvement in her mock trials and debate tournaments, underscoring the sacrifices they made. From discussing the emotional toll of legal battles to the critical importance of establishing an LLC for sole proprietors, this episode is packed with heartfelt stories and actionable strategies that resonate deeply with anyone involved in or considering a career in construction law.

Get in touch with Megan:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/constructionriskstrategist/
Risk Management Course
Savannah in September

Let Primo know youre listening:
https://depthbuilder.bio.link/

Get on the path to Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

Chapters

00:00 - Risk Management in Construction Litigation

03:26 - Navigating Law and Woo

15:13 - Parental Support in Extracurricular Activities

20:26 - Exploring Careers in Law and Litigation

33:52 - Building Client Relationships Through Risk Management

44:34 - Importance of LLC for Sole Proprietors

49:47 - Risk Management Strategies and Paths

01:01:37 - Construction LinkedIn Retreat - Savannah

01:11:11 - Emotional Toll of Legal Battles

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.561 --> 00:00:06.171
Listen I love suing insurance carriers because of how much they screw over their own clients.

00:00:06.171 --> 00:00:06.934
It's ridiculous.

00:00:07.054 --> 00:00:07.233
Yeah.

00:00:07.580 --> 00:00:11.230
So I get real mad when people are like, oh, risk is insurance, you must be in insurance.

00:00:11.230 --> 00:00:17.350
I'm like I am absolutely not so, because my whole approach you nailed it on the head.

00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:23.067
I've been litigating for almost 15 years now and I'm sitting here going like, especially with my long-term clients.

00:00:23.067 --> 00:00:24.751
I've been with you long enough.

00:00:24.751 --> 00:00:31.954
Now, if we start learning some of these lessons and applying them on the front end, we can avoid litigation altogether.

00:00:31.954 --> 00:00:35.570
Or because you can't always avoid litigation in construction, we all know that.

00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.908
When we end up in litigation, we'll be in a better position.

00:00:38.908 --> 00:00:41.548
We'll have all the documentation we need.

00:00:41.548 --> 00:00:47.069
So 100%, my entire system, my framework, aim for higher profits it all comes from.

00:00:47.069 --> 00:00:54.392
It is informed by the lessons I have learned from litigating this shit on the back end for 15 years.

00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:56.621
What is going on?

00:00:56.621 --> 00:00:58.624
L&m family members.

00:00:58.624 --> 00:01:00.485
I have a super, super awesome guest today.

00:01:00.485 --> 00:01:10.075
A super, super awesome guest today, miss Megan Shapiro Esquire, which I like to say that because it sounds extra, extra fancy.

00:01:10.075 --> 00:01:22.590
If you're like out there in the world and could benefit from a better understanding about managing your risk, specifically in the construction space, megan is your human being.

00:01:22.590 --> 00:01:29.484
She is the risk expert so much and she's so generous Like she lets me use risk in my post without.

00:01:29.484 --> 00:01:30.668
What do they call those things?

00:01:30.668 --> 00:01:31.049
Without?

00:01:31.049 --> 00:01:34.888
I don't get any call to court for stealing her word there.

00:01:34.888 --> 00:01:37.400
I don't know if that's really her word, but Megan's awesome.

00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:38.724
You're going to get to know her.

00:01:38.724 --> 00:01:39.966
She got a whole lot going on.

00:01:39.966 --> 00:01:41.111
She's got an online course.

00:01:41.111 --> 00:01:44.245
She's a practicing attorney in California.

00:01:44.846 --> 00:02:10.872
I've heard some of your live streams, megan talking about trades, and I was like, oh damn, like you really have a deep, deep understanding or maybe interaction with trade professionals and their side, their experience with litigation as it relates to law, and so we're going to get to learn about her path to success, because she has the silver bullet, the one answer to have enormous success in your life, and we're about to hear that.

00:02:10.872 --> 00:02:16.431
But before we get to hear, ms Megan, we want to do the L&M shout out.

00:02:16.431 --> 00:02:24.665
So I'm going to shout out my old buddy, good friend, super awesome leader out there in the construction industry, mr Buddy Brumley.

00:02:24.665 --> 00:02:34.263
Buddy took the time to leave this review.

00:02:34.263 --> 00:02:38.271
Buddy says follow Jesse as he brings the truth of mistakes made several times and the cost of being a slow learner at some things.

00:02:38.271 --> 00:02:39.133
Yes, that's me.

00:02:39.133 --> 00:02:44.149
The good, the bad and the ugly, as he puts it, the learnings and missteps.

00:02:44.149 --> 00:02:50.612
This book will have you wanting to fuss at him, cry with him and cheer for him.

00:02:50.612 --> 00:03:00.093
It's going to help a lot of people, and so that was the review my buddy Buddy left on becoming the promise you are intended to be.

00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:07.926
Buddy, thank you for taking the time to do that and for everybody else out there, when you get a chance, you leave a comment, a thumbs up, a star or whatever.

00:03:07.926 --> 00:03:11.001
Like all those things, I love reading the comments.

00:03:11.001 --> 00:03:16.920
They mean a lot to me and it gives me an excuse to celebrate you on one of the podcasts in the future.

00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:18.686
And so that's enough about that.

00:03:18.686 --> 00:03:21.193
Let's talk to miss megan.

00:03:21.193 --> 00:03:24.282
Miss megan, how in the world are you today?

00:03:24.663 --> 00:03:25.867
I am wonderful, wonderful.

00:03:25.867 --> 00:03:28.282
It's Friday, right before a three-day weekend.

00:03:28.282 --> 00:03:29.706
It doesn't get much better than that.

00:03:31.211 --> 00:03:31.812
Girl, you know.

00:03:31.812 --> 00:03:35.421
So I'm holiday blind.

00:03:35.421 --> 00:03:44.087
I forget about holidays, I don't account for holidays at all, and over and over I need to get better, I need to find a system.

00:03:44.087 --> 00:03:51.872
But over and over again I get in trouble with like clients because I'll schedule a call or a session on a holiday.

00:03:51.872 --> 00:03:52.763
And I did it again.

00:03:52.763 --> 00:03:54.349
I said, okay, well, why don't we meet Monday?

00:03:54.349 --> 00:03:58.883
Like like Jesse, it's, it's a holiday, and I swear I'm like it's me.

00:03:58.883 --> 00:04:00.485
There's no holidays in May.

00:04:00.504 --> 00:04:14.163
There's like Memorial Day, dumbed down Like oh yeah, okay, my bad, yeah, I kept doing the same thing for, for whatever reason, this Memorial Day was like I had a complete blind spot and I also kept trying to schedule things.

00:04:14.163 --> 00:04:17.721
And so you you can't see it on my cat I have a big wall size calendar behind me.

00:04:17.721 --> 00:04:18.442
You can't see May.

00:04:18.442 --> 00:04:25.334
But I finally had to put like a big X over the day because I kept trying to schedule stuff and people were like no, no.

00:04:26.221 --> 00:04:28.067
No, Megan, we don't want to do that.

00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:29.021
We don't want.

00:04:29.021 --> 00:04:30.949
You might want to work, we don't.

00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:34.201
That's so awesome.

00:04:34.201 --> 00:04:37.108
All right, so you are an attorney.

00:04:37.108 --> 00:04:42.642
That's no small thing, and I don't want to get hyper anchored on that yet.

00:04:42.642 --> 00:04:51.749
What I really think the L&M family wants to know is, like what are the juicy, awesome, magical things that they need to know about you?

00:04:53.040 --> 00:05:00.495
Ooh, well, I would say first of all, I am genuinely super passionate about risk management.

00:05:00.495 --> 00:05:06.011
It is genuine, it's not like a marketing ploy or some business strategy.

00:05:06.011 --> 00:05:12.622
I had a call earlier today with somebody who was like everybody's in this space, you have a lot of competitors.

00:05:12.622 --> 00:05:14.687
And I was like do I, though?

00:05:14.687 --> 00:05:16.673
Do I really have a lot of competitors?

00:05:16.673 --> 00:05:23.009
Are they really actually passionate about proactive risk management for construction companies?

00:05:23.009 --> 00:05:24.812
I'm not sure I buy that.

00:05:24.812 --> 00:05:25.720
So that's one thing.

00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.447
It is truly, genuinely a passion project for me.

00:05:29.447 --> 00:05:30.891
So that's a big thing.

00:05:31.471 --> 00:05:36.732
I like to say that I fell into construction law and then I fell in love with construction law.

00:05:36.732 --> 00:05:48.689
And then I literally fell in love because I met my husband, who is a currently he is a mechanical superintendent, but he used to work for one of my clients, which is how we met.

00:05:48.689 --> 00:05:51.509
So we have a construction love story, which is kind of fun.

00:05:51.509 --> 00:06:01.278
And let's see one other fun fact, unrelated I am super into I don't share this with many people, but Jesse does already know this I'm super into very woo things.

00:06:01.278 --> 00:06:03.247
I'm like, big into astrology.

00:06:03.247 --> 00:06:03.819
I'm big.

00:06:03.819 --> 00:06:04.447
I'm wearing a lot of crystals today.

00:06:04.447 --> 00:06:04.733
I'm like, big into astrology, I'm big.

00:06:04.733 --> 00:06:05.603
I'm wearing a lot of crystals today.

00:06:05.603 --> 00:06:06.966
I'm very big into crystals.

00:06:06.966 --> 00:06:08.850
I love human design.

00:06:08.850 --> 00:06:15.290
I'm super into sort of like the woo side of things and I don't talk about it much because it doesn't really mesh with construction.

00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:17.502
But you asked me for fun facts.

00:06:17.502 --> 00:06:19.444
I am who I am.

00:06:19.725 --> 00:06:22.649
Thank you for that Cause you know I'm going to get nosy about it.

00:06:22.649 --> 00:06:28.636
So here's I'll tell you in my head, like I know you have an open mind, but now you're talking crystals.

00:06:28.636 --> 00:06:30.199
I'm like, oh, that's really interesting.

00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:43.795
In my head there's a clash between the thinking style I'll say style to practice law and crystals.

00:06:43.795 --> 00:06:47.168
Now we're not just talking crystals here, right?

00:06:47.168 --> 00:06:53.307
We're talking a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:06:53.307 --> 00:06:54.529
How do you reconcile that?

00:06:54.810 --> 00:06:55.069
Yeah.

00:06:55.069 --> 00:06:57.454
So I think in two ways.

00:06:57.454 --> 00:07:07.014
One, I think I somewhat disagree with your premise that law is very opposite of the sort of metaphysical space.

00:07:07.014 --> 00:07:11.187
Okay, law is very much an art.

00:07:11.187 --> 00:07:12.850
It really is.

00:07:12.850 --> 00:07:15.261
I mean, like they call it practicing law for a reason.

00:07:15.261 --> 00:07:17.625
Right, we are practicing every day.

00:07:17.625 --> 00:07:24.346
There are certain fundamental black letter, laws, rules, all of the things that we have to play by.

00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:30.550
But to me, the thing I love the most about being a construction attorney is in the strategy.

00:07:30.550 --> 00:07:44.709
It really is in, like working with my clients to strategize, and strategy is all art, right, like there's no playbook for strategy, and so I don't see a disconnect there.

00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:48.422
But also, my second reason is why not hedge my bets?

00:07:48.422 --> 00:07:53.379
I mean I don't know, right, I mean I don't know what's I haven't you know.

00:07:53.379 --> 00:07:56.932
I don't know what's after this life, I don't know what's beyond, I don't know.

00:07:57.494 --> 00:08:03.651
So it would be very arrogant of me to pretend that I've got those answers and to just be like I'm going to take this one path.

00:08:03.651 --> 00:08:10.963
I have to just go with what feels aligned for me.

00:08:10.963 --> 00:08:20.182
And I have been like I've been a woo girl since I was a little kid, like, really, yeah, when I like, when my parents would take me to like Barnes and Noble when I was like a kid, I would immediately like make a beeline for, like, the tarot card section, the witch.

00:08:20.182 --> 00:08:20.884
Like I was.

00:08:20.884 --> 00:08:25.610
Like I've been like this since I was a little kid, way before I was a lawyer, even though I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer.

00:08:25.610 --> 00:08:32.571
So they always were like I've always had both of those things in me since I was little, and so to me it doesn't feel anachronistic.

00:08:32.571 --> 00:08:40.711
I guess is really what it comes down to, because, like, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, I've always been interested in the woo side of things, and so there's no contradiction for me.

00:08:50.059 --> 00:08:50.260
I feel it.

00:08:50.260 --> 00:08:51.346
I feel it a hundred percent because it's similarly.

00:08:51.346 --> 00:08:54.017
I'm I mean, my work is process improvement technically right, that's the job, that's what I get paid to do.

00:08:54.017 --> 00:09:01.302
But everything I talk about is about people and relationships and vulnerability, and people like, well, that that doesn't.

00:09:01.302 --> 00:09:03.311
I was like, well, absolutely it does.

00:09:03.311 --> 00:09:05.639
And similar, like kind of very, very similar.

00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:15.493
I love that you said like I want to hedge my bets, because I was talking to somebody the other day and when I said it I could see like, oh, that didn't land well with them.

00:09:15.493 --> 00:09:27.514
Well, we're talking about social media and what are like primarily, I post on LinkedIn and I also post on TikTok and Facebook and Instagram and they're like TikTok, like why TikTok?

00:09:27.514 --> 00:09:34.804
And I'm like, well, it's kind of like praying, like it's not going to hurt anything, and then why not?

00:09:34.804 --> 00:09:40.532
And in the moment, to me it was a perfectly logical association.

00:09:40.591 --> 00:09:40.831
Yeah.

00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.711
Except that it undermines people's faith and religion.

00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:47.923
Oh, I guess it does technically.

00:09:47.923 --> 00:09:49.586
I didn't take it that way either.

00:09:49.586 --> 00:09:51.961
I think we're we're more on the same wavelength on that.

00:09:51.961 --> 00:09:55.350
I didn't take it that way why did I mean it that way?

00:09:55.350 --> 00:09:56.801
When I made that comparison.

00:09:57.621 --> 00:09:58.823
Right, right, no, totally.

00:09:58.823 --> 00:10:05.972
But again, you know, people, people have certain attachments and I try to, when I rewind, play the replay.

00:10:05.972 --> 00:10:19.488
Rather, I don't necessarily realize what I've said until I see the reaction on somebody's face and I'm like, oh, I said something dumb, let me, let me, let me edit that now.

00:10:19.488 --> 00:10:24.934
So, okay, you mentioned since you're a young lady woo, woo and law.

00:10:24.934 --> 00:10:29.961
You knew, where did that?

00:10:29.961 --> 00:10:30.541
Where do you think that came?

00:10:30.581 --> 00:10:32.342
from the law part or the woo woo part.

00:10:32.962 --> 00:10:34.884
Let's start with the law and then the woo woo.

00:10:35.125 --> 00:10:42.510
You know, I'm not sure I really, because it's like I remember when I was in kindergarten I wanted to be a geologist.

00:10:42.510 --> 00:10:45.133
Randomly, I had like a rock tumbler.

00:10:45.133 --> 00:10:45.933
Remember rock tumblers?

00:10:45.953 --> 00:10:47.134
They were very popular in the 80s.

00:10:47.654 --> 00:10:51.662
And maybe that's why I like crystals so much now, right, I don't know.

00:10:51.662 --> 00:10:58.985
And then I had a brief stint, in like first grade, of wanting to be a teacher, which is consistent with now how I also teach we didn't talk about that, but I do teach as well.

00:10:58.985 --> 00:11:07.871
And then it was law and I don't even remember, like when or how people ask me that all the time and I'm like I wanted to be a lawyer for so long.

00:11:07.871 --> 00:11:09.419
I don't even remember my own origin story.

00:11:10.822 --> 00:11:12.067
Wow I don't, I don't know.

00:11:12.067 --> 00:11:18.500
And then by the time I got to high school, when it was like really sort of like you can really be active in doing actually let me back up.

00:11:18.500 --> 00:11:22.248
Even in middle school we had a speech team.

00:11:22.248 --> 00:11:27.505
We didn't have debate in middle school, but we did have a speech team, a class, and I joined that.

00:11:27.505 --> 00:11:30.543
And then, but then when I got to high school I was like, oh, I'm going to do debate.

00:11:30.543 --> 00:11:32.230
And then we had mock.

00:11:32.230 --> 00:11:36.322
We finally got mock trial at my very tiny little school, I think my junior or senior year.

00:11:36.322 --> 00:11:37.225
So I did that then.

00:11:37.225 --> 00:11:40.789
And then I was like, okay, I mean like it was just always the path.

00:11:40.789 --> 00:11:42.352
I mean I went straight from high school to college.

00:11:42.352 --> 00:11:43.815
I went straight from college to law school.

00:11:43.815 --> 00:11:47.942
When I graduated law school I decided to get yet another degree in trial advocacy.

00:11:47.942 --> 00:11:52.753
So it was just always I don't know, because it was just always the thing.

00:11:52.753 --> 00:11:56.269
I never had that struggle of like what do I want to do with my life?

00:11:56.269 --> 00:11:58.081
I was very blessed in some ways.

00:11:59.043 --> 00:12:00.764
That's, that's a bit I mean.

00:12:00.764 --> 00:12:08.355
Well, I always knew what I wanted to do with my life, and it was three options it was bullfighter, clown or teacher.

00:12:09.643 --> 00:12:12.486
Yeah, I can see that those three choices, they make complete sense together.

00:12:12.486 --> 00:12:13.089
Yeah, I'm with you.

00:12:14.481 --> 00:12:15.767
I just haven't got there yet.

00:12:15.767 --> 00:12:17.024
I'm still working on it.

00:12:17.024 --> 00:12:24.128
Okay, so WooWoo came from the magic Tumblr.

00:12:24.128 --> 00:12:27.234
When you were coming up, say, middle school, high school time.

00:12:27.234 --> 00:12:32.788
How did you build your knowledge base in the woo woo area?

00:12:32.788 --> 00:12:35.980
Was books like friends, I imagine?

00:12:35.980 --> 00:12:39.591
Like social network was probably a small part of it.

00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:42.268
No, I'm probably older than you think I am.

00:12:42.268 --> 00:12:48.613
Like Facebook came out when I was a junior or senior in height and college sorry, in college.

00:12:48.852 --> 00:12:49.982
Ah, okay so.

00:12:50.466 --> 00:13:01.607
I was one of the lucky people I think lucky that I didn't have social media when I was like a teenager, in those like formative years where you don't want documented history forever of what you did Right.

00:13:01.607 --> 00:13:08.018
I'm lucky I didn't have that Right, which which means I also didn't have the weird pressure that goes along with it and all of the downsides of social media.

00:13:08.018 --> 00:13:09.121
I didn't have that, thank God.

00:13:09.121 --> 00:13:11.788
So that hadn't that had zero influence.

00:13:11.788 --> 00:13:16.211
Like we had AOL, like right, so we had AOL instant messenger and like chat rooms.

00:13:16.552 --> 00:13:22.144
So that was like, I guess, like the very beginning tiptoeing into social media, but it was still within your control.

00:13:22.144 --> 00:13:23.547
You had to be sitting at your computer.

00:13:23.547 --> 00:13:27.513
We didn't have smartphones, none of that stuff, so none of that was an influence.

00:13:27.513 --> 00:13:29.883
I went to Barnes and Noble a lot Like.

00:13:29.883 --> 00:13:31.972
I've always loved books, I've always loved reading.

00:13:31.972 --> 00:13:36.592
My parents always fostered that in me, so I'd go to the, we would go to our town library.

00:13:36.592 --> 00:13:37.316
I was like.

00:13:37.356 --> 00:13:41.565
I grew up in a very small town in Southwest Missouri so I could ride my bike to the library in the summers.

00:13:41.565 --> 00:13:44.428
I was a free range kid, like most of us were.

00:13:44.428 --> 00:13:45.951
I'm like free range kid.

00:13:45.951 --> 00:13:47.373
I was, yeah, like it was.

00:13:47.373 --> 00:13:49.135
We were just like summertime.

00:13:49.135 --> 00:13:53.585
Kester stayed home alone this week this summer.

00:13:53.585 --> 00:13:54.207
Guys, I don't know what to tell.

00:13:54.207 --> 00:13:55.173
We didn't do summer camps, we didn't do all that.

00:13:55.173 --> 00:13:57.160
I was a free range kid so I would ride my bike up to the library.

00:13:57.160 --> 00:14:04.789
I had my own library card and then, you know, when I was lucky and on the weekends, my parents would take me to Barnes and Noble a lot and I would just beeline it for that section.

00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:09.155
And so, yeah, a lot of it came from books, mostly actual literal books.

00:14:09.155 --> 00:14:12.448
If you can believe it, we still I still have literal books.

00:14:13.821 --> 00:14:15.684
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so cool.

00:14:15.684 --> 00:14:25.129
So you mentioned your parents and I, you know, I know we're of the age and I think the L and M family out there is largely of the age of they have kids or they're on the verge of having kids.

00:14:25.129 --> 00:14:30.735
What role like, what was the support like from your parents on these two avenues?

00:14:30.735 --> 00:14:32.982
Law and woo, woo.

00:14:33.283 --> 00:14:43.807
Okay, so I was raised Irish Catholic, so I would say not much support on the woo woo side, but not any condemnation either.

00:14:43.807 --> 00:14:58.725
It was just sort of like I don't even really know if my parents really I mean like I have like a Ouija board and I bought tarot decks and stuff like that, but I think they were just like whatever Cause I was always a good student, I was a good kid and I was a good student, I wasn't getting into trouble, I was getting good grades.

00:14:58.725 --> 00:15:06.033
So I think my parents kind of had a little bit of like a laissez-faire attitude of like, as long as she's doing what she's supposed to be doing, then like, let her interests be what they are.

00:15:06.033 --> 00:15:08.884
So in that way I guess it kind of was supportive, right.

00:15:08.884 --> 00:15:09.606
It was like.

00:15:09.606 --> 00:15:12.604
And then on the law side, they were incredibly supportive, like.

00:15:13.184 --> 00:15:19.542
I remember when I would so when we would do mock trial and speech and debate tournaments in high school.

00:15:19.542 --> 00:15:36.600
Those were oftentimes that well, they were always on the weekends, right, because in high school you can't interfere with your class time, so they'd be on the weekends and so we'd we would take a bus with our whole team and our coach and we'd, you know, drive three or four hours away to whatever school was hosting the tournament and my dad would come a lot of the times.

00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.524
He would like drive wherever we were going, yeah.

00:15:39.524 --> 00:15:45.495
And then when I got to college I started doing intercollegiate competitive mock trial and my team was very good.

00:15:45.495 --> 00:15:51.746
We went to nationals several times and we competed all across the country and my dad would take off work.

00:15:51.746 --> 00:15:58.684
He would literally take days off of work so he could travel and come and be and sit in my little mock trials.

00:15:58.684 --> 00:16:01.248
I say little because now I do real trials right.

00:16:01.248 --> 00:16:04.544
So I'm like, oh, that's so cute, but back then it was my whole world right.

00:16:04.745 --> 00:16:15.721
And I have one memory I bet they still have this video I had gone to a really exciting speech and debate tournament over the weekend and it was one of the rare out of town ones.

00:16:15.721 --> 00:16:18.083
This was high school and it was out of town.

00:16:18.083 --> 00:16:22.409
So we had like stayed in a hotel as high schoolers with, like our coach and stuff and it was like a big deal, right.

00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:30.311
So I remember I came home that Sunday and I used to have this like debate box because, again, this was like the late 90s, very early 2000s.

00:16:30.311 --> 00:16:31.500
I graduated high school in 2002.

00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.184
So everything was still paper.

00:16:33.184 --> 00:16:34.520
We didn't do anything, I didn't.

00:16:34.520 --> 00:16:36.985
No laptops, no iPads, we didn't do anything electronically, right.

00:16:36.985 --> 00:16:41.248
So I had this like file, like this file plastic file box.

00:16:41.248 --> 00:16:42.610
I'm sure you've seen what I'm talking about.

00:16:42.889 --> 00:16:44.591
Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.

00:16:44.610 --> 00:16:47.253
Yeah, it had like its little handle I had decorated it with.

00:16:47.253 --> 00:16:50.995
Like I was a huge Hanson fan, If you remember the Hanson band.

00:16:51.655 --> 00:16:54.179
So I decorated it with all my stuff and it had all of our.

00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:56.384
I had a partner on, I did, I did team debate.

00:16:56.384 --> 00:16:57.886
So I had a partner.

00:16:57.886 --> 00:17:00.630
We were best friends and we were partners for all four years of high school.

00:17:00.630 --> 00:17:09.288
So we had all of our stuff for the, for the topic for the year in this debate box and I was an avid note taker color coded notes, no wonder.

00:17:09.288 --> 00:17:34.784
I went to law school and so I got home from that tournament and we had done really well and I was amped up and I was so excited and I like got my box and I sat down in the living room floor and my parents had like a camcorder Remember those with like the bit, oh yeah like a camcorder, with like a tape and they recorded me, like they recorded the conversation where I was like excitedly telling them about every scene.

00:17:34.824 --> 00:17:52.272
I mean I, my poor parents, I literally had my notebook out and I went through every note from four rounds of a debate tournament and they recorded the whole thing and they were actively involved and super engaged and asking questions and so I was very, very lucky.

00:17:52.272 --> 00:17:54.886
My parents were incredibly and continue to be.

00:17:54.886 --> 00:17:56.431
I should not be using the past tense at all.

00:17:56.431 --> 00:17:58.686
My parents are incredibly supportive.

00:17:58.686 --> 00:18:04.548
My mom actually flew out to California from the Midwest to be here when I got sworn in as an attorney.

00:18:04.548 --> 00:18:10.365
So after I passed the bar, you have to get sworn in, you take the oath in front of a judge, and my mom flew out to California to be here for that.

00:18:10.365 --> 00:18:15.342
So my parents have always been incredibly supportive, incredibly supportive.

00:18:16.124 --> 00:18:16.545
That is.

00:18:16.545 --> 00:18:17.528
That's amazing.

00:18:17.528 --> 00:18:20.881
I bet there's a lot of memories there, a lot of good times.

00:18:20.881 --> 00:18:21.840
You know, it makes me think.

00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:37.250
A buddy of mine we were having a conversation he was talking about one of his kids is playing some sport I can't remember which one it was, but it wasn't like a traditional sport and he's like you know I want to support him but it's the stupidest sport in the world.

00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:38.910
Like I don't understand it.

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:46.674
I go to the thing but man, it's like it's painful for me and I never, ever considered that.

00:18:46.855 --> 00:18:50.176
You know my mom, she was super supportive, baseball specifically.

00:18:50.176 --> 00:18:51.356
She worked a lot.

00:18:51.356 --> 00:19:00.141
She had two single mom, right, but she was pretty present.

00:19:00.141 --> 00:19:02.246
It never occurred to me that she would be showing up for something purely for my sake.

00:19:02.246 --> 00:19:15.692
And then if you zoom out, you think about all the parents in the world, like how many of them are going, you know, driving, hustling people around town and all the things to be at something that they really don't care about except the fact that their kid is there.

00:19:15.692 --> 00:19:17.967
Like that's, that's a huge sacrifice.

00:19:17.967 --> 00:19:20.876
I was never aware of it until just recently.

00:19:20.876 --> 00:19:34.246
Now you mentioned that, like high school, you're a good student in high school, so I get the feeling that middle school and high school, the pace of that rigor and workload was too slow for you.

00:19:34.246 --> 00:19:34.826
Am I off?

00:19:35.548 --> 00:19:37.776
No, you're not off, you're spot on.

00:19:37.776 --> 00:19:40.762
In fact, this would probably come as no surprise to you.

00:19:40.762 --> 00:19:47.285
My senior year of high school, our school decided to try to like level up again small town, southwest Missouri.

00:19:47.285 --> 00:19:57.931
So they decided that they were going to make some changes to the academic programming to try to level up, and so they decided that they were going to basically do the equivalent of like almost like a master's thesis.

00:19:57.931 --> 00:20:12.567
So if you wanted to be able to graduate with honors your senior year, outside of being a part of the National Honor Society, then you had to take this advanced English course, which I was taking anyway, and you had to write a 20-page research paper.

00:20:12.567 --> 00:20:17.203
Then you had to do a presentation to a panel of three of the teachers.

00:20:17.625 --> 00:20:19.111
So they were trying to really mimic this.

00:20:19.111 --> 00:20:21.298
So I took the class.

00:20:21.298 --> 00:20:22.340
I wrote the paper.

00:20:22.340 --> 00:20:24.086
It was about Henry VIII and his wives.

00:20:24.086 --> 00:20:25.229
By the way, it was a very interesting paper.

00:20:25.229 --> 00:20:25.829
I learned a lot.

00:20:25.829 --> 00:20:26.551
I love that paper.

00:20:26.551 --> 00:20:37.201
But I was like I was so offended at the idea that they were creating what felt to me at the time to be like just busy, like you're just like.

00:20:37.201 --> 00:20:39.410
There's no value to us, the students, for this.

00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:42.944
You're just trying to make this seem like a bigger deal than it is.

00:20:43.746 --> 00:20:43.987
Yes.

00:20:44.126 --> 00:20:47.873
So I refused to do that part of it, even though I was doing all the other.

00:20:47.873 --> 00:20:53.788
I did all the other stuff but I was like, on principle alone, I am not going to graduate with honors Like my GPA.

00:20:53.788 --> 00:21:07.777
I was still part of the National Honor Society, so I still had the sash, but like I did not have that one little distinction because I was like I'm not doing, I'm not jumping through hoops that don't make any sense just for the sake of jumping through hoops, I'm not doing it.

00:21:07.777 --> 00:21:11.403
So yes, you're spot on.

00:21:12.085 --> 00:21:24.269
I can totally appreciate that, because there have been many points in my, we'll say, academic career that ended in high school where I really I was like no, like homework.

00:21:24.269 --> 00:21:32.751
I didn't do homework because to me homework is practice and if I understand this thing that they talked about, why would I practice?

00:21:32.751 --> 00:21:36.323
And it wasn't going fast.

00:21:36.323 --> 00:21:37.645
Anyways, my grades were not great.

00:21:37.645 --> 00:21:40.182
Clearly I didn't go to law school, no doubt there.

00:21:40.182 --> 00:21:41.946
I think that's pretty obvious for folks.

00:21:41.946 --> 00:21:56.750
So for any younglings out there, or even parents of younglings, what pointers do you have for those people that have people in their lives that want to go down this study of law?

00:21:56.750 --> 00:22:02.463
What should they be thinking about considering for middle schoolers and high schoolers?

00:22:03.665 --> 00:22:06.109
Oh, so let me just clarify.

00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:11.127
Are you asking what the middle schoolers and high schoolers should be considering or what the parents should be considering?

00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:12.171
Both.

00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:16.250
Okay, the middle schoolers and high schoolers should be not considering it.

00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:19.784
And by that what I mean is I'm not saying don't go to.

00:22:19.784 --> 00:22:22.347
I'm not saying don't go to law school, don't be a lawyer.

00:22:22.347 --> 00:22:25.772
I'm not saying that because I got that advice a lot and I always hate I roll.

00:22:25.772 --> 00:22:28.582
I would always roll my eyes and I'm like I know what I want to do with my life.

00:22:28.582 --> 00:22:30.066
You're just not listening to me.

00:22:30.066 --> 00:22:34.642
As a kid, it feels dismissive to be told don't do that, don't think that.

00:22:34.642 --> 00:22:37.365
Right, it's like I'm the adult I know better than you.

00:22:37.365 --> 00:22:38.567
Fuck you, no.

00:22:38.567 --> 00:22:39.909
So.

00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:46.365
So my advice to middle schoolers and high schoolers is like do you continue to do the things that you find interesting.

00:22:46.365 --> 00:22:47.825
Explore the different things.

00:22:47.825 --> 00:22:48.968
I was in the high school.

00:22:48.968 --> 00:22:49.976
Play my senior year.

00:22:49.976 --> 00:22:52.667
For example, I was like the laughing lady in Death of a Salesman.

00:22:52.667 --> 00:22:54.486
Do you be happy?

00:22:54.486 --> 00:22:55.905
Explore the things you want to explore.

00:22:55.905 --> 00:23:00.191
If that's the career path you're interested in, great.

00:23:00.191 --> 00:23:04.101
But like, there's not really much you need to be doing in middle school and high school for that.

00:23:04.101 --> 00:23:06.346
Just know that you need to.

00:23:06.346 --> 00:23:07.810
You're going to be in school for a long time.

00:23:07.810 --> 00:23:16.384
I was in school for 27 years, yeah, yeah, but I, but I, but I just want them to do them and find the things that make them happy and what they're passionate about.

00:23:17.506 --> 00:23:25.416
Parents, I would say do your homework about what it's going to entail and maybe have the conversations.

00:23:25.416 --> 00:23:30.554
Start the conversations with your kids, because I think more and more I mean everybody.

00:23:30.554 --> 00:23:37.737
We talk all the time about the student loan crisis and all of that stuff, and it's at this point.

00:23:37.737 --> 00:23:55.204
Unless you're independently wealthy, you're going to have to take out student loans to go to law school, because you're now talking about four years of an undergraduate degree, first followed by three years of law school, and so, again, unless you're independently wealthy, that means student loans, and so, from a parent standpoint, you need to start looking at what that looks like.

00:23:55.204 --> 00:23:58.633
I mean, I graduated law school in 2009.

00:23:59.540 --> 00:24:01.846
I've been making student loan payments that whole time.

00:24:01.846 --> 00:24:06.195
I owe $100,000 more than I borrowed.

00:24:06.195 --> 00:24:18.125
At this point, after having been paying my loans, it's a broken system, and if I looked at it from a pure financial standpoint, then I would be saying do not go to law school.

00:24:18.125 --> 00:24:22.273
I owe $335,000 in loans right now.

00:24:22.273 --> 00:24:25.306
Yeah, I'll never pay it off.

00:24:25.306 --> 00:24:27.151
I will never be able to pay it all off.

00:24:27.151 --> 00:24:29.026
I make my payments every month, I'll never be able to pay it off.

00:24:29.026 --> 00:24:35.602
I'll just have to reach that point where I've paid 25 years of payments and then the government forgives it and I have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount.

00:24:35.602 --> 00:24:37.002
So it just is what it is.

00:24:37.002 --> 00:24:46.996
So if I was looking at it from a pure number standpoint, I would be like don't do it, unless you're going to go into big law and you know you're going to make a salary that is so high that you'll be able to quickly pay off your loans.

00:24:46.996 --> 00:24:47.455
Don't do it.

00:24:47.455 --> 00:24:50.669
But that's not helpful advice to kids.

00:24:50.669 --> 00:24:52.767
But it could be helpful advice for parents.

00:24:53.279 --> 00:25:03.729
Parents can understand those processes and those issues and can start figuring out on their end what role they want to play, what guidance they want to offer If they have a kid like me.

00:25:03.729 --> 00:25:06.079
That's like I'm doing it, no matter what, I don't give a shit.

00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:14.066
My prefrontal cortex isn't developed enough to understand the long-term consequences of this choice that I'm making, so I'm going to do what I want to do, right?

00:25:14.066 --> 00:25:21.105
So, like starting to figure out, figure out how you can best guide your, guide your kids if they're on that path, and just support them the best way that you can.

00:25:35.999 --> 00:25:39.102
Oh, I think that's the freaking amazing advice.

00:25:39.102 --> 00:26:04.663
Because, yes, like it's, I think for some I'll say it this way to whatever that is is when the student is allowed to explore their curiosities, the outcomes in terms of, like, low trauma, low baggage, low resentment, like sense of fulfillment and contribution or quality of life, is way higher than the opposite.

00:26:04.663 --> 00:26:10.755
And so, phenomenal advice, megan, awesome, and that's free.

00:26:10.755 --> 00:26:13.401
Y'all, that's free.

00:26:13.401 --> 00:26:14.502
She just gave that to us.

00:26:14.502 --> 00:26:17.729
So listen to Megan, because Megan knows All right.

00:26:17.729 --> 00:26:29.518
So, middle school, high school, went to university kick butt national competitions, kick butt national competitions.

00:26:29.518 --> 00:26:31.704
So you were in law and, like, law is not a small thing, it's a big, giant thing.

00:26:31.704 --> 00:26:32.909
And you decided what was, what's the?

00:26:32.909 --> 00:26:41.935
What are the connection points between I want to be a lawyer to focusing on construction and litigation and the things that you're into now?

00:26:42.537 --> 00:26:42.778
Yeah.

00:26:42.778 --> 00:26:47.367
So I always knew that I want to do litigation, because litigation is the courtroom.

00:26:47.367 --> 00:26:54.402
That's the courtroom side, like, litigation is basically the word that you use to describe lawsuits that go to trial that aren't criminal.

00:26:54.402 --> 00:26:57.941
Right, everybody knows criminal because that's what's on TV and movies and that's you know what we.

00:26:57.941 --> 00:27:00.616
It's more interesting, so that's what they show us entertainment wise.

00:27:00.616 --> 00:27:03.823
But litigation is just the non-criminal side of that.

00:27:03.823 --> 00:27:06.868
So I did originally start out in criminal law.

00:27:06.868 --> 00:27:08.461
I don't think you actually know this about me, jesse.

00:27:08.461 --> 00:27:09.820
I did start out in criminal law.

00:27:09.820 --> 00:27:29.661
I first started doing we had a clinic at my law school that allowed law students, under the supervision of our instructors, who were also licensed attorneys, to actually practice, and so I did a clinic where I represented people who had been released on parole, were accused of violating their parole, and so now they were facing revocation to be sent back to jail.

00:27:29.661 --> 00:27:34.840
And I do say jail on purpose, because it was the maximum return to custody time was one year.

00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:36.865
So that's a jail time, not as a prison time.

00:27:37.125 --> 00:27:38.175
Not prison, yep yeah.

00:27:38.316 --> 00:27:46.865
And so at the time this was like 2008-ish at the time in California the state appointed attorneys to those people to represent them.

00:27:46.865 --> 00:27:50.333
They were in it was like a public defender, but we were a separate body.

00:27:50.333 --> 00:28:05.980
Okay, it was a separate entity that was that provided those attorneys, but they were provided as a matter of right by the state, and so I was able to do that and I got to do like four real hearings with real clients and represent them at the parole revocation hearings, and so I loved it.

00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:06.635
It was great.

00:28:06.635 --> 00:28:12.944
So then when I graduated law school, I started doing that as one of the paid panel attorneys representing those parolees.

00:28:12.944 --> 00:28:16.960
But meanwhile I took a little bit of a deviation and this is where I paused to think what came first.

00:28:17.701 --> 00:28:19.777
In my third year of law school, I did that clinic.

00:28:19.777 --> 00:28:44.768
My second year, in my third year of law school, I actually worked for the Sacramento County District Attorney's Office in the traffic court division, because the really cool thing I don't know if they still do this, but at the time they would let so we could be we could become what's called certified law students, which meant that we could actually do trials by ourselves, be the attorney in the trial and in traffic court at the time they were just like here are your cases go.

00:28:44.768 --> 00:28:51.885
So I got to try all by myself, like a hundred trials and I had like an 85% conviction rate.

00:28:51.885 --> 00:29:00.104
I was like it was crazy because it was traffic court, but it was awesome because I got used to like being in front of a judge, talking to a judge, negotiating with opposing attorneys.

00:29:00.104 --> 00:29:00.945
It was really great.

00:29:00.945 --> 00:29:02.196
It was an awesome experience.

00:29:02.757 --> 00:29:04.138
But that was 2008, 2009.

00:29:04.138 --> 00:29:05.480
We all remember what the economy did.

00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:09.145
All of the county offices went on hiring freezes.

00:29:09.145 --> 00:29:12.290
So I didn't have a choice to leave criminal.

00:29:12.290 --> 00:29:13.959
It wasn't an active decision.

00:29:13.959 --> 00:29:17.508
It was like none of the PPs are hiring and none of the DAs are hiring.

00:29:18.457 --> 00:29:27.808
So I got very lucky that I found a solo practitioner who was doing civil litigation, who was looking to hire somebody, and I started working for him while I got that extra degree I mentioned earlier.

00:29:27.808 --> 00:29:37.779
So, even though I graduated law school, I decided to get an advanced degree, a master of laws and trial advocacy at Temple University, which is in Philadelphia, even though I lived in California.

00:29:37.779 --> 00:29:47.836
So I was flying cross country once a month doing mock trials every weekend and working back here for him.

00:29:47.836 --> 00:30:03.576
But because of the law at the time I was still able to represent parolees, so I was working for him, I was representing parolees as a paid attorney and then I was getting that extra degree flying back and forth to Philly so that, all wrapped up, the law in California literally changed.

00:30:03.576 --> 00:30:11.760
The voters decided that parolees did not deserve to have an attorney appointed to them at those types of hearings, not really common on that.

00:30:11.800 --> 00:30:12.383
It is what it is.

00:30:12.383 --> 00:30:19.949
They drafted the language on the ballot in a very, in my opinion, deceiving and misleading way.

00:30:19.949 --> 00:30:23.685
They called it a victim's rights bill, which had literally no impact on victims at all.

00:30:23.685 --> 00:30:27.020
That's a whole other conversation I won't get on that path.

00:30:27.020 --> 00:30:29.898
You and I might have that conversation later, but we don't need to talk about that now.

00:30:29.919 --> 00:30:34.080
So the law changed so they were no longer providing attorneys to represent parolees at parole hearings.

00:30:34.080 --> 00:30:36.049
So then I was doing the civil litigation full time.

00:30:36.049 --> 00:30:46.269
That particular attorney, he saw his practice starting to kind of slow down and he was wonderful in that he said to me you should start looking for another job.

00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:57.884
Like so, like I'll keep employing you for as long as I can, but like go start looking, because I don't want to end up in a situation where I literally can't pay you anymore and you don't have any other options, which I very much appreciated.

00:30:58.425 --> 00:30:58.645
Yes.

00:30:59.538 --> 00:31:02.482
Very rare, and so I started interviewing at civil law firms because we still had hiring freezes in the criminal side.

00:31:02.482 --> 00:31:23.654
I started interviewing at civil law firms because we still had hiring freezes in the criminal side and I took my interview at my firm that I'm at now back in 2012 now, and I remember I looked at their website at the time and their website had a ton of typos on it and I am like a very big grammar person and so I was like I was so full of myself.

00:31:23.654 --> 00:31:29.747
I was like I'm going to take the interview because I want the rep, but I am not going to work for this firm if they can't even have a typo free website.

00:31:29.747 --> 00:31:38.536
Okay, so like I came in all cocky like whatever, and my partner now, frank, he's the one who started the firm back in 1995.

00:31:38.536 --> 00:31:42.121
He had just come off of a huge trial, like literally.

00:31:42.121 --> 00:31:44.044
When I say just come off of, I mean days.

00:31:44.743 --> 00:31:49.570
So yeah, so like the application process had been going on behind the scenes.

00:31:49.570 --> 00:31:53.255
He wasn't involved at all because he was doing this trial and they set my interview.

00:31:53.255 --> 00:31:57.316
It was like his first or second day back in the office after the trial and he was like, oh, we got an interview today.

00:31:57.316 --> 00:31:58.976
I'm going to do it, I'm going to take this interview.

00:31:58.996 --> 00:31:59.676
Give me your info.

00:31:59.836 --> 00:32:01.097
I'm going to do it.

00:32:01.097 --> 00:32:08.642
So he comes in and Frank has a very unique and brash personality and, like me, people love him or hate him.

00:32:08.642 --> 00:32:10.403
Right, he's very polarizing.

00:32:10.403 --> 00:32:11.903
I tend to have that effect on people too.

00:32:11.903 --> 00:32:20.448
So he and I hit it off immediately in the interview, like immediately, and so I was like, oh man, I'm going to definitely end up having to take this job.

00:32:20.448 --> 00:32:22.450
So the rest is history.

00:32:22.450 --> 00:32:25.310
I came to the firm to get to your question about construction.

00:32:25.310 --> 00:32:26.652
Sorry for being so long-winded.

00:32:26.652 --> 00:32:27.712
No, it's perfect.

00:32:27.732 --> 00:32:28.292
Yeah, it's good.

00:32:39.555 --> 00:32:43.705
So when I started at the firm, they had a small construction practice much smaller than it is now representing a handful of subcontractors that they had represented for years and years and years.

00:32:43.705 --> 00:32:45.791
They had a defect litigation portfolio and the attorneys in the firm all hated it.

00:32:45.791 --> 00:32:48.218
They thought it was like a monkey could do it.

00:32:48.218 --> 00:32:49.441
They didn't respect it.

00:32:49.441 --> 00:32:51.144
They were like it's so easy.

00:32:51.144 --> 00:32:55.768
So they had a habit of like just pushing it to the newest attorney in the firm.

00:32:55.768 --> 00:32:59.664
They were like this will be good training for you because it's like so easy, anybody can do it.

00:33:00.548 --> 00:33:00.730
Yeah.

00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:01.251
I'd been.

00:33:01.251 --> 00:33:02.935
I'd been an attorney for about two years at this point.

00:33:02.935 --> 00:33:05.999
So, as a new girl in, they were like here you go, this is your thing.

00:33:05.999 --> 00:33:15.527
I got super lucky because the main client at the time, a concrete client hired a new GM like literally within a month of me starting.

00:33:16.107 --> 00:33:21.132
So he starts and he's looking at their P&L and he's like you know, we're spending a lot on legal.

00:33:21.132 --> 00:33:25.665
I want to personally dig into this and figure out what's going on here.

00:33:25.665 --> 00:33:26.472
So he came in at the same time.

00:33:26.472 --> 00:33:33.882
I came in, we hit it off and we both were like let's take ownership of this shit, let's decrease your bill.

00:33:33.882 --> 00:33:35.903
I should be quiet as I say this.

00:33:35.903 --> 00:33:40.682
I was like let's figure out a way for you not to have to pay my firm this much money.

00:33:41.705 --> 00:33:42.807
Right right right Right.

00:33:59.567 --> 00:34:05.431
And so I discovered through that relationship that, like I actually love concrete, right right right Love Concrete, love that client, love the process.

00:34:05.431 --> 00:34:18.244
So he and I together sort of created our own approach, our own system, how we wanted to tackle this huge construction defect litigation portfolio, and I went to the partners at the time as a little baby lawyer.

00:34:18.244 --> 00:34:24.603
I went to the partners at the time and I said you know what I love this, I want to take ownership of this.

00:34:24.603 --> 00:34:31.005
This no longer has to be the sort of like red headed stepchild that gets passed down to new attorneys Like I want to own it.

00:34:31.264 --> 00:34:32.215
I'm taking ownership.

00:34:32.215 --> 00:34:35.364
It's mine because it's actually really complicated and nuanced.

00:34:35.364 --> 00:34:41.306
If you take the time to dig in there's so much room for strategy in the world of construction law.

00:34:41.505 --> 00:34:51.344
So much room for strategy If you just take the time to, to learn that right, to realize, if you pay enough attention to it to really realize it's awesome right.

00:34:51.344 --> 00:34:56.643
So they were like, okay, go for it.

00:34:56.643 --> 00:34:58.907
So then fast forward.

00:34:58.907 --> 00:35:12.347
I built up the practice and now 95% of my day-to-day is construction litigation mostly subcontractors, some owners, some GCs, but I always say subs, have my heart because that's where I started and the rest is history.

00:35:12.347 --> 00:35:14.360
I mean, I still represent that same concrete sub.

00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:15.822
That GM is still there.

00:35:15.822 --> 00:35:17.708
My practice has grown.

00:35:17.708 --> 00:35:28.097
I'm very, very proud to be able to say that the bulk of my client portfolio are long-term client relationships that I've had for a decade or more.

00:35:28.097 --> 00:35:34.860
At this point, because that's the approach that I take to my relationships with my clients I want to build a relationship I don't want to have.

00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:38.356
I don't like to have cases, I like to have clients.

00:35:39.177 --> 00:35:41.960
Yes, yes, I love it.

00:35:41.960 --> 00:36:03.016
And to reinforce what you said at the beginning of the conversation, like your passion absolutely is coming through and and I feel you, sister, and people, y'all need to know like this level of energy doesn't come for stuff that people don't give a shit about, you care.

00:36:03.016 --> 00:36:07.728
So it's like this reinforcing thing you get something out of it, you put more into it, the energy keeps coming.

00:36:07.728 --> 00:36:10.822
I've got two questions.

00:36:10.822 --> 00:36:12.822
One is ultra, ultra important.

00:36:12.822 --> 00:36:15.923
Did you fix the typos on the website?

00:36:16.143 --> 00:36:23.722
Yes, in fact, just this last year actually, I think it was last year within the last two years, I actually have graduated.

00:36:23.722 --> 00:36:23.922
Now.

00:36:23.922 --> 00:36:25.025
I'm now a name partner.

00:36:25.025 --> 00:36:26.179
My name is on the wall.

00:36:26.179 --> 00:36:28.661
I own part of the firm.

00:36:28.661 --> 00:36:30.889
The remaining partners are gone.

00:36:30.889 --> 00:36:32.072
We have new partners.

00:36:32.072 --> 00:36:35.081
Frank and I have new partners now, but it's primarily me and him.

00:36:35.081 --> 00:36:39.661
We're the two equity partners and I told him a couple of years ago I'm owning the website.

00:36:39.661 --> 00:36:42.715
So I actually designed our current version of our website.

00:36:42.715 --> 00:36:43.940
I'm working with a marketing team.

00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:45.003
I've got a call with them later today.

00:36:45.003 --> 00:36:50.400
Actually we're in the process of redoing it.

00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.130
But yes, I designed the current version of our website and wrote all the copy myself.

00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:52.755
So, yes, the typos are gone.

00:36:53.775 --> 00:36:54.757
Awesome, so I'm going to.

00:36:54.757 --> 00:37:01.237
I'll make sure to post the link in the show notes and, folks, if there's any typos, you know who to contact.

00:37:01.496 --> 00:37:02.416
Yeah, give it to me.

00:37:02.416 --> 00:37:03.717
Give it to me, I'll take it.

00:37:03.717 --> 00:37:04.778
I'll eat crow.

00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:23.210
So the second question I have I'm trying to in my head, I'm trying to figure out like sequencing, because I think when, when I've been involved or enthralled myself into things, new things surface right Like another layer, another new ones, like oh, oh, and I kind of chased that.

00:37:23.210 --> 00:37:32.847
And when people look at it from current state, it appears as if I've always been focused on this one thing, kind of like I mentioned earlier.

00:37:32.847 --> 00:37:34.842
Right, people focus, that's all I talk about.

00:37:34.842 --> 00:37:45.858
That's not where I started, right, I started process and eventually discovered that well, there's like people are really important, because without the people, processes don't work.

00:37:45.858 --> 00:37:58.626
And so, as that relates to what I've heard from you so far, you started off in litigation and now what I, a lot of the messaging I hear from you is around risk management.

00:37:58.626 --> 00:38:15.389
And am I wrong in thinking the techniques, the strategy, the tactics on how you serve people in terms of mitigating risk came from litigating stuff and saying, oh, there's a trip hazard, oh, there's another trip hazard.

00:38:16.255 --> 00:38:18.099
Yeah, A hundred percent, and I mean.

00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:32.782
This is why, when people start asking me like what do you mean when you talk about risk management in construction, the very first thing I say is like okay, most people when they hear risk in construction, they're usually hearing about it from somebody in the insurance space.

00:38:33.204 --> 00:38:36.072
It's usually brokers, it's usually captives.

00:38:36.072 --> 00:38:42.038
It's usually carriers that are doing these like quote unquote risk management trainings because they're trying to reduce claims.

00:38:42.038 --> 00:38:48.701
It's all motivated by, like the multi-billion dollar insurance conglomerate trying to save a few bucks on your claim.

00:38:48.701 --> 00:38:51.327
Sorry, fuck that, like I don't.

00:38:51.327 --> 00:38:51.927
It's not.

00:38:51.927 --> 00:38:56.063
Insurance is an important part of a proactive risk management strategy.

00:38:56.063 --> 00:38:57.797
It's an important piece of the puzzle.

00:38:57.797 --> 00:39:00.945
It's one small piece and it's reactive by nature.

00:39:00.945 --> 00:39:04.425
Right, because you're only dealing with insurance once you have a problem.

00:39:04.425 --> 00:39:05.471
It's react.

00:39:05.471 --> 00:39:07.298
So insurance pisses me off.

00:39:07.298 --> 00:39:09.007
I've sued a lot of insurance carriers.

00:39:09.007 --> 00:39:11.056
I'm sorry, you want to talk about passion.

00:39:11.237 --> 00:39:19.688
Get me going on insurance okay, that's the one I love suing insurance carriers because of how much they screw over their own clients.

00:39:19.688 --> 00:39:20.755
It's ridiculous.

00:39:20.755 --> 00:39:25.077
So I get real mad when people are like, oh, risk is insurance, you must be in insurance.

00:39:25.077 --> 00:39:27.739
I'm like I am absolutely not Right.

00:39:27.739 --> 00:39:33.284
So because my whole approach you nailed it on the front end we can avoid litigation altogether.

00:39:33.284 --> 00:39:54.507
Or because you can't always avoid litigation in construction, we all know that when we end up in litigation we'll be in a better position.

00:39:54.507 --> 00:39:55.831
We'll have all the documentation we need.

00:39:55.831 --> 00:39:59.702
So, 100%, my entire system, my framework, aim for Higher Profits.

00:39:59.702 --> 00:40:08.635
It all comes from, it is informed by the lessons I have learned from litigating this shit on the back end for 15 years.

00:40:08.635 --> 00:40:11.443
Let's be strategic guys.

00:40:11.443 --> 00:40:13.947
Let's talk about this stuff in the beginning.

00:40:15.615 --> 00:40:17.320
And not from an insurance standpoint.

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:21.608
I have zero interest in saving AIG 50 grand.

00:40:21.608 --> 00:40:25.121
Zero interest in that.

00:40:25.121 --> 00:40:28.695
Give the policy benefits to the people who are paying their premiums.

00:40:28.695 --> 00:40:30.800
It's not that difficult, oh my God.

00:40:32.804 --> 00:40:33.365
I love it.

00:40:33.365 --> 00:40:34.067
I'm with you.

00:40:34.067 --> 00:40:34.628
I'm with you.

00:40:34.628 --> 00:40:41.766
So here's a thought I wonder is there a level of resistance?

00:40:41.766 --> 00:40:44.416
What are the similarities or differences?

00:40:44.416 --> 00:40:58.123
Whichever makes the most sense for you in terms of when you're talking to a current client about risk mitigation and a prospect about risk mitigation, what do you see any similarities or differences into?

00:40:58.123 --> 00:41:01.039
How they receive that and how open they are to it?

00:41:01.099 --> 00:41:01.661
A hundred percent.

00:41:01.661 --> 00:41:02.664
I think for two reasons.

00:41:02.664 --> 00:41:07.081
Of course, my, my current clients are going to be way more receptive to it, and I think for two reasons.

00:41:07.081 --> 00:41:09.907
Right One, we have a trusting relation.

00:41:09.907 --> 00:41:13.463
They trust me, they trust me with their business at this point.

00:41:13.463 --> 00:41:21.757
I mean, I just had you were there, Jesse I just had my own live stream a couple of days ago where I actually had one of my law firm clients on and she told a really powerful story.

00:41:21.757 --> 00:41:29.009
They had a lawsuit that was literally potentially catastrophic for the company and it was all on my shoulders and I got them through it.

00:41:29.009 --> 00:41:31.438
And I'm not saying that to like pat myself on the back.

00:41:31.438 --> 00:41:39.637
I'm saying that because when I then go to them and I say, hey guys, I think we should try this thing on the front end there they don't even have to question, they don't even have to pause.

00:41:39.657 --> 00:41:50.965
They're like okay let's do it Right, cause I've already like I already have that trust with them.

00:41:50.965 --> 00:41:52.282
I've already proven myself with them, so I think that's one reason.

00:41:52.282 --> 00:41:57.762
The other reason is because my clients all came to me as a result of being involved in litigation, so they already had that worst case scenario happen, and then we bring the relationship up.

00:41:58.143 --> 00:42:09.958
That allows us to be proactive, right, but they've already experienced a worst case, whereas if I'm talking to a prospective new client, first of all they don't know me and trust me, and I don't blame them for that.

00:42:09.958 --> 00:42:13.068
There are a lot of people out there that are pushing magic bullets to increase profits and there's nothing behind it.

00:42:13.068 --> 00:42:18.706
There really isn't, and so I don't blame them for looking at me like, okay, sure you, you've got the solution.

00:42:18.706 --> 00:42:20.456
I don't blame them for that, but that's a but.

00:42:20.456 --> 00:42:21.539
That's one challenge, right.

00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:37.545
And then the other one is, if they're lucky, a lot of times they either haven't been in business long enough Usually that's why they haven't been in a situation where they have faced a catastrophic loss and so they don't understand how high the stakes can be.

00:42:37.545 --> 00:42:40.300
They have a huge blind spot to risk.

00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:47.226
They don't know what they don't know and they don't know what risk they're actually holding, especially new.

00:42:47.266 --> 00:42:51.385
Like I've talked on LinkedIn lately about this fictional character I created called Jake the Mason.

00:42:51.385 --> 00:42:58.306
Right, and it's like such a because it resonated with so many people, because it's such a common story, right, like Jake the Mason was a great Mason.

00:42:58.306 --> 00:43:01.536
He started taking work on the side on the weekends because he was so good at what he did.

00:43:01.536 --> 00:43:04.603
He brought his buddies in to help because he kept getting more and more side work.

00:43:04.603 --> 00:43:08.409
He finally is like I'm just going to start my own masonry business because I'm a great mason.

00:43:08.409 --> 00:43:11.021
That's wonderful, but Jake doesn't know how to run a business.

00:43:11.021 --> 00:43:13.538
And Jake is now out there operating as a sole proprietor.

00:43:13.538 --> 00:43:15.382
I will have a heart attack.

00:43:15.382 --> 00:43:23.246
Jake doesn't know that his house is on the line, that his car is on the line that his wife's car is on the line.

00:43:23.708 --> 00:43:32.737
They don't know what they don't know, and so, because they don't realize how risky they are actually being, they don't see the value in investing on the front end and being proactive about it.

00:43:33.438 --> 00:43:48.170
And so, by on the line for clarity, I think the way that translates to me is, if a client were to go after them for damages, they could get access to all of their personal assets.

00:43:48.394 --> 00:43:49.177
Exactly so.

00:43:49.177 --> 00:43:53.257
When you're operating as a sole proprietor, that means that you don't have any legal protection.

00:43:53.257 --> 00:43:55.804
There's no difference between you and your business.

00:43:55.804 --> 00:44:01.786
Even if you have a business license, even if you have insurance, there's no legal protection there.

00:44:01.786 --> 00:44:06.603
That's why an LLC, a limited liability corporation, is like the bare minimum you need to do.

00:44:06.603 --> 00:44:08.487
That is your barrier.

00:44:08.487 --> 00:44:14.164
That is your protection of your personal assets versus the assets of the business.

00:44:14.284 --> 00:44:19.626
And if you I don't care if you've got separate bank accounts, I don't care if you're operating like you are an LLC.

00:44:19.626 --> 00:44:38.235
If you do not have that corporate formation in place, if you face a catastrophic loss that either exceeds your policy limits or God forbid is an uncovered claim, meaning you don't have any insurance for the claim, they can go beyond just your business bank account into your personal bank account where you buy groceries.

00:44:38.235 --> 00:44:46.583
If you don't have enough money in your bank account to satisfy a judgment, they can put a lien on your home.

00:44:46.583 --> 00:44:58.085
Like I get real passionate about this one because I'm so scared for these construction guys who are operating as sole proprietors and think it's not worth their time, energy, effort or money to take that extra step.

00:44:58.085 --> 00:45:00.938
And it's so easy and it's not expensive at all.

00:45:02.463 --> 00:45:10.483
California is probably one of I'm sure it's one of the more expensive places to do it, because we're more expensive at everything and even here it's really like California is probably one of I'm sure it's one of the more expensive places to do it, because we're more expensive at everything and even here it's only $800 a year to be to have an LLC.

00:45:10.483 --> 00:45:12.501
Like, why would you not do that?

00:45:12.501 --> 00:45:13.003
And they won't.

00:45:13.003 --> 00:45:14.641
They don't do it because they don't know what they don't know.

00:45:15.534 --> 00:45:16.599
Right, right, a lot.

00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:26.860
Well, hopefully, folks L&M family out there, what you just heard, and I promise I'm probably, I promise I'm probably I'm going to clip that to help people understand because it's real.

00:45:26.860 --> 00:45:32.003
You probably can guess this, megan, but I'm a pretty risk tolerant person.

00:45:32.003 --> 00:45:40.170
No, probably riskier than I should be, but it doesn't until you know the pain.

00:45:40.170 --> 00:45:42.351
It's really not a thing.

00:45:42.351 --> 00:45:45.041
Right, it's a myth, it's the boogeyman.

00:45:45.695 --> 00:45:51.860
But we are talking about your home, we are talking about your children's future here.

00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:55.847
That that's what's at risk For real.

00:45:55.847 --> 00:45:58.918
For real, that's what's at risk.

00:45:58.918 --> 00:46:05.661
It's not a matter of, well, that doesn't happen to me because I'm an excellent operator.

00:46:05.661 --> 00:46:09.255
It's really a matter of it hasn't happen to me because I'm, you know, an excellent operator.

00:46:09.255 --> 00:46:11.539
It's really a matter of it hasn't happened to you yet.

00:46:11.539 --> 00:46:16.389
Like it, the longer period I heard a story, I think I heard on a podcast.

00:46:16.389 --> 00:46:35.123
They're talking about this group of entrepreneurs and they're talking about, like, the requirements to be a part of this group and so there was a certain amount of revenue and, and you know whatever certain number of businesses they had to have started, which I'm like, oh yeah, this is all like elitism, bullshit.

00:46:35.123 --> 00:46:41.784
And then they said the other requirement was you had to have at least filed for bankruptcy once.

00:46:42.684 --> 00:46:43.407
Wow.

00:46:44.208 --> 00:46:51.135
And then I'm like once Wow.

00:46:51.135 --> 00:46:52.117
And then I'm like holy, okay, like that's real.

00:46:52.117 --> 00:46:52.918
Talk there, like that's real.

00:46:52.918 --> 00:47:01.282
It's not saying the goal is to be filing for bankruptcy, but the lessons you learned that drive you to bankruptcy are tremendous.

00:47:01.282 --> 00:47:04.068
And then, because of the pain, now it's for real.

00:47:04.068 --> 00:47:09.199
Yeah, Sets you up to mitigate your risk in a more responsible manner going forward.

00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:10.101
What do you think about that?

00:47:10.503 --> 00:47:11.887
Yeah, I mean first of all.

00:47:11.887 --> 00:47:25.143
I mean like I love and hate it because it's like, okay, I I get a little bit upset about these sort of elitist organizations for entrepreneurs because I'm like, okay, but like the little guys are the ones who need it more, right, and it's like just being so exclusionary.

00:47:25.143 --> 00:47:34.237
I don't like gatekeeping, whatever, but I do love the idea of like you have to have failed, and failed catastrophically Right, because that's that's where growth happens.

00:47:34.237 --> 00:47:36.364
Right, Like we grow, we learn more.

00:47:36.364 --> 00:47:39.237
I'm a huge advocate of like Carol Dweck's you know growth mindset.

00:47:39.237 --> 00:47:41.880
Love that book, it's great, I'm all about it.

00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:48.409
So it's like that's where the learning comes in, that's where the growth comes from is like those catastrophic failures.

00:47:48.409 --> 00:48:03.057
Now, with that said, to go back a second, learn the catastrophic failure when it's your company that files for bankruptcy, not when it's you as an individual that now has to file for bankruptcy.

00:48:03.057 --> 00:48:08.681
Right, it's different, they're very, very different.

00:48:08.681 --> 00:48:11.282
Yeah, have a company that fails.

00:48:11.282 --> 00:48:12.246
Learn those lessons.

00:48:12.246 --> 00:48:14.922
Don't lose your house over it.

00:48:17.938 --> 00:48:18.059
Girl.

00:48:18.059 --> 00:48:27.195
I got my LLC and I was like you know how many times people you're going to feel like oh God, like that's all, like this is the stupidest thing in the world.

00:48:27.195 --> 00:48:50.697
I think for the first time I feel better about it because I'm like I don't feel like, come on, I don't, I don't need to do it like I don't need to, and I think here's like for high risk tolerant people like me, I don't have to do it to start a business, so in my brain it's not necessary.

00:48:50.956 --> 00:48:51.177
Yeah.

00:48:52.280 --> 00:49:00.414
But if something goes wrong, it becomes really necessary or really valuable.

00:49:00.414 --> 00:49:01.420
I should say yeah.

00:49:01.561 --> 00:49:02.065
And I want to.

00:49:02.065 --> 00:49:10.086
I want to just pause, because now you've said it twice and I want to talk about this for a second, because you've talked about your risk tolerance right and that is so key.

00:49:10.086 --> 00:49:25.210
So when I work with clients whether it's through my online course or my individual or whatever my in-person trainings, whatever it is outside of the law firm when I'm not talking about law clients, I'm talking about proactive risk management clients the first step is a risk tolerance assessment.

00:49:25.210 --> 00:49:33.536
So I have a customized risk tolerance assessment that I have created because proactive risk management strategies are not one size fits all.

00:49:33.536 --> 00:49:39.224
I don't want somebody to be deterred because they're like you and they're like I've got a high risk tolerance.

00:49:39.224 --> 00:49:40.831
I'm willing to roll the dice, I'm willing to gamble.

00:49:40.831 --> 00:49:44.525
Therefore, I don't need to even think about this stuff because I've got such a high risk tolerance.

00:49:45.135 --> 00:49:59.688
There are still things like an LLC, like the minimum stuff that would still benefit you even with a high risk tolerance, and so that's why I love to start there, because I'm like OK, great, I can still help you in key ways, even if you have a super high risk tolerance.

00:49:59.688 --> 00:50:03.826
Or, on the other side, the flip side of that coin, I actually have a very low risk tolerance.

00:50:03.826 --> 00:50:05.289
I am a very risk averse person.

00:50:05.289 --> 00:50:06.739
The flip side of that coin I actually have a very low risk tolerance.

00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:07.362
I am a very risk averse person.

00:50:07.362 --> 00:50:09.434
My course is created for somebody like me because it's easier to scale back.

00:50:11.056 --> 00:50:13.121
So I'm going to give you the level 100.

00:50:13.121 --> 00:50:14.443
You don't want any risk at all.

00:50:14.443 --> 00:50:24.222
Here it is, and then, as you have a higher and higher risk tolerance, you can pick and choose from the buffet of strategies about what makes the most sense for you and your specific risk tolerance.

00:50:25.746 --> 00:50:26.807
I like that.

00:50:26.807 --> 00:50:33.782
Oh OK, so we're going to have to come back to that, because in that there's multiple ways that you serve.

00:50:33.782 --> 00:50:36.681
So you serve in your practice, you're a partner at your practice.

00:50:36.681 --> 00:50:39.262
Congratulations, because I know that ain't no small thing.

00:50:39.262 --> 00:50:39.684
Thank you.

00:50:39.684 --> 00:50:43.445
It's actually a pretty freaking monumental thing, congratulations, thank you.

00:50:43.445 --> 00:50:57.402
I know that you have an online course, I know that you teach at university and I just heard that you have like a different coaching thing that sounds like in-person risk mitigation thing.

00:50:57.402 --> 00:51:00.476
Is it only four or are there more?

00:51:00.476 --> 00:51:01.458
Am I missing other things?

00:51:01.478 --> 00:51:03.945
One, two, three, four, five.

00:51:03.945 --> 00:51:04.487
There's five.

00:51:04.487 --> 00:51:07.605
Okay, I'm like, whew, let me think, okay, so lawyer done.

00:51:07.605 --> 00:51:09.172
We talked a lot about that.

00:51:09.172 --> 00:51:11.637
The online course is yeah, that's one.

00:51:12.418 --> 00:51:17.246
I don't like the word coaching for myself, and here's why.

00:51:17.246 --> 00:51:22.684
Two reasons One I think it's a diluted market and I think it's really easy to dismiss somebody who says I'm a coach.

00:51:22.684 --> 00:51:24.559
Actually, three reasons, that's one.

00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:28.277
Two there are actual coach certifications out there and I don't have them.

00:51:28.277 --> 00:51:37.364
You don't have to have them, but as somebody who, like, takes obviously certifications pretty fucking seriously since I got a bar license, right, like I don't have that certification.

00:51:37.364 --> 00:51:43.300
So I feel like it's disingenuous and a little bit disrespectful to the people who took that effort and time to go get that certification.

00:51:43.300 --> 00:51:44.143
I don't have it.

00:51:44.804 --> 00:51:57.809
But also three I feel like a lot of times in my experience, coaches really tend to focus more on mindset, and that's valuable in its own little silo, like I've had coaches before, I need help with mindset.

00:51:57.809 --> 00:52:02.003
That's great for what it is, but I don't really give a shit about mindset.

00:52:02.003 --> 00:52:05.903
I talk strategy and I don't really think that's coaching.

00:52:05.903 --> 00:52:11.088
So what I say is I do one-on-one strategies, strategy sessions.

00:52:11.088 --> 00:52:19.025
So other people might characterize that as coaching, but I call it one-on-one strategy sessions because I'm not talking to you about your mindset around risk.

00:52:19.025 --> 00:52:24.306
I'm talking to you about these are the eight areas that you are facing risk.

00:52:24.306 --> 00:52:28.663
These are the things you need to know and these are the strategies you need to implement.

00:52:28.663 --> 00:52:35.806
Let's talk about your company and your business and let's create in this session an actionable plan that you're ready to go back and implement.

00:52:35.827 --> 00:52:40.222
Okay, so I don't like coaching to describe that it's different, I think.

00:52:40.222 --> 00:52:58.898
I love it, okay, and thank you for the clarity because, yes, yes, and I'm on the other end again on the certification thing, yeah, yeah, but I completely appreciate your perspective and I can appreciate and value certifications, but also path of least resistance If I don't need it, I ain't going to get it.

00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:04.402
Yeah, and again, I'm not trash talking coaches, I just think that what they do is very different than what I do.

00:53:04.402 --> 00:53:07.376
I don't want paralegals saying they're lawyers because they're not.

00:53:07.376 --> 00:53:11.835
They're super important, super valuable, but they're not lawyers, they're paralegals.

00:53:11.835 --> 00:53:15.403
And then the other one is in yeah, in-person trainings.

00:53:15.403 --> 00:53:17.655
So oh, and I'm in teaching, so sorry.

00:53:17.655 --> 00:53:19.182
The four is in-person trainings.

00:53:19.775 --> 00:53:21.121
So I come out to your job.

00:53:21.121 --> 00:53:22.340
I prefer to do it in person.

00:53:22.340 --> 00:53:24.155
I think that's where the magic happens.

00:53:24.155 --> 00:53:32.679
I mean, I'll do Zoom if that's the client's preference, but I prefer to come and be there in person at the business, dig in to the actual business.

00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:35.503
So I I take that same framework that's in my online course.

00:53:35.503 --> 00:53:37.364
It's an eight module framework.

00:53:37.364 --> 00:53:39.088
I take that same thing.

00:53:39.088 --> 00:53:40.369
I come into the business.

00:53:40.369 --> 00:54:00.885
The first day is I meet with the key stakeholders I'll call them, usually that's owners and maybe C-suite and we go through the whole system as it pertains to your company specifically, and by the end of that day we have now mapped out at the key stakeholder level what the company's new proactive risk management policies and procedures are going to be.

00:54:00.885 --> 00:54:01.967
Now we have that plan.

00:54:03.054 --> 00:54:06.224
Day two, training two, doesn't happen the next day.

00:54:06.224 --> 00:54:08.141
This is where I think I'm maybe a little bit different.

00:54:08.141 --> 00:54:12.280
Yeah, this happens a month or so later, depending on schedule availability.

00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:13.981
I come back.

00:54:13.981 --> 00:54:23.746
But now I'm with supers, pms, foremen and maybe some key field guys, based on what the company thinks is important, and now it's the train the trainer session.

00:54:23.746 --> 00:54:29.018
So it's now me saying all right, these are the new risk management policies and procedures that your company is implementing.

00:54:29.018 --> 00:54:30.161
I'm going to train you on them.

00:54:30.161 --> 00:54:40.248
And then I'm going to train you this afternoon on how to train your field guys, because, from a proactive risk management standpoint, I'm here to tell you, the most important part of that equation is the field guys.

00:54:44.938 --> 00:54:52.434
The field guys are hands down the most important part of a proactive risk management strategy Preach.

00:54:52.454 --> 00:54:52.835
Yes, so there's that.

00:54:52.835 --> 00:54:53.277
And then, yes, I'm also.

00:54:53.277 --> 00:54:57.985
I teach construction law and contracts as part of the construction management program at UC Davis's Continuing Professional Education school, so I do that as well.

00:54:57.985 --> 00:54:58.567
So that's all five.

00:54:58.586 --> 00:55:08.588
Oh, baby, so you busy and and you're active on the LinkedIn, active on social media and the juicy part.

00:55:08.588 --> 00:55:13.623
We almost completely skipped this construction love story part.

00:55:13.945 --> 00:55:15.126
Oh yeah, we did.

00:55:16.028 --> 00:55:22.501
You're happily married to a fellow construction worker, but he actually still works, not like me, I'm just.

00:55:22.501 --> 00:55:23.545
I'm a house cat.

00:55:23.545 --> 00:55:25.657
Now how did like what happened?

00:55:25.697 --> 00:55:25.978
there.

00:55:25.978 --> 00:55:42.887
Yeah, so the same year that I made partner at the firm actually 2017, I was going through a divorce and I had one of my subcontractor clients who I'd had for years at that point by the way, they're one of the most proactive risk management clients I've ever had.

00:55:42.887 --> 00:55:58.335
They have invested in proactive risk management like fully invested from the beginning, and as part of that, my husband, jeremy, was working for them at the time as like a hybrid superintendent, slash PM, slash risk management guy, like he was the.

00:55:58.335 --> 00:56:07.364
He was like the fixer, so when projects would go bad, he was the one that they would send to the job, cause he's very like, charismatic and personable, so he can have those difficult conversations in a way that's not alienating Right?

00:56:07.364 --> 00:56:12.860
So they had brought me in to do a training with the key stakeholders, including all the supers, all the PMs.

00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:17.186
But I was doing a training with them and he sort of like spotted me from the back of the room.

00:56:17.186 --> 00:56:22.759
So, fast forward, I made partner and so the owner of the company wanted to take me out to celebrate.

00:56:22.759 --> 00:56:35.920
I was like it was like a month of just like drunken debauchery because making partner right and so so they they wanted to take me out to dinner and they like roped Jeremy in because he had just.

00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:42.516
He was also divorced and had just recently gotten out of his first long-term relationship post divorce.

00:56:42.516 --> 00:56:43.460
They were together for about a year.

00:56:43.481 --> 00:56:44.867
Okay.

00:56:44.927 --> 00:56:53.047
And he was in what I'm going to affectionately refer to as his Tinder era at the time, and I was like I wasn't.

00:56:53.047 --> 00:56:57.184
I was just like I had just basically told my husband I'm like, I'm out, I want a divorce.

00:56:57.184 --> 00:56:59.010
This has been over for years, whatever.

00:56:59.010 --> 00:57:00.275
So I wasn't dating or anything yet.

00:57:00.275 --> 00:57:12.699
And so the client was like, hey, you know what, like Megan will be a good influence on Jeremy because she's a hell of a lot better than like what he's been doing, and Jeremy will be a good distraction for Megan, since she's like like at the beginning part of this process.

00:57:12.699 --> 00:57:15.043
So they thought we would just be like a fun distraction for each other.

00:57:15.043 --> 00:57:21.797
So they were like, hey, Jeremy, we're going to take our lawyer out to dinner to celebrate making partner.

00:57:21.797 --> 00:57:22.500
You know what?

00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:23.884
I just told this story in the wrong order.

00:57:23.884 --> 00:57:25.056
I hadn't done the training yet.

00:57:25.056 --> 00:57:28.483
I forgot this part because he didn't know who I was.

00:57:28.583 --> 00:57:38.726
So when his boss was like we're going to go out with our lawyer, you should come, he of course, was envisioning what a lot of people who've never dealt with an attorney think of, like the old fat, white haired dude.

00:57:38.726 --> 00:57:41.369
Right, like not to be crude, but that's.

00:57:41.369 --> 00:57:43.197
I'm repeating his version of this story.

00:57:43.197 --> 00:57:50.541
So he's like okay, like felt like he couldn't say no but had zero interest in actually going to this dinner.

00:57:50.541 --> 00:57:53.969
So I get there, they were already there.

00:57:53.969 --> 00:57:57.222
I got there a few minutes late because I was coming from somebody else having taken me out for drinks to celebrate making partners.

00:57:57.222 --> 00:57:57.744
So I get there, they were already there.

00:57:57.744 --> 00:57:59.487
I got there a few minutes late because I was coming from somebody else having taken me out for drinks to celebrate making partners.

00:57:59.487 --> 00:58:07.418
So I came late and I walked in and he was like wait, what that's our lawyer, because, I mean, I was 34 back then I looked a lot better.

00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:10.027
So he was like that's our lawyer.

00:58:10.027 --> 00:58:14.559
So we hit it off because he's a very personable guy and stayed friends.

00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:15.782
Then I came in and did the training.

00:58:15.782 --> 00:58:26.181
I found it after the fact that, like he and some of the other supers and PMs were like you got to get with Megan Right, so he was like about it before I was so fast forward a couple of months.

00:58:26.260 --> 00:58:35.545
We were down in San Diego at a PCBC Pacific coast builders convention I think is what it stands for and I had a different client who had rented a yacht.

00:58:35.545 --> 00:58:40.585
And so they were like Megan, come out on the yacht and if you have other clients that are at the convention, bring them out on the yacht.

00:58:40.585 --> 00:58:45.206
So the client was down there and I was like hey, do you guys want to come out on the yacht?

00:58:45.206 --> 00:58:48.802
Jeremy, meanwhile, was back up in Northern California at a job site.

00:58:48.802 --> 00:58:56.927
So my client, his boss, bought him a ticket, called him and he was like hey, I know you're at this job site in San Jose.

00:58:56.927 --> 00:58:58.782
There's a ticket waiting for you at SFO.

00:58:58.782 --> 00:59:00.581
You're flying down to San Diego right now.

00:59:01.295 --> 00:59:04.724
And Jeremy was like and he's like he's in the field.

00:59:04.724 --> 00:59:12.106
So he's like looking down, he's like my jeans are dirty, I don't have a toothbrush, Like what Just call?

00:59:12.106 --> 00:59:13.275
We'll figure it out Literally, Literally.

00:59:13.275 --> 00:59:15.099
Oh, we'll figure it out Literally, literally.

00:59:15.099 --> 00:59:24.431
So he flies down, goes out on this yacht with me and asks me out and I'm like, yeah, and I'm like such a lawyer answer.

00:59:24.431 --> 00:59:33.090
I go like I have to do some legal research first Because I didn't know he's a client.

00:59:33.391 --> 00:59:35.503
He's a client and I didn't know that his boss was like orchestrating this.

00:59:35.503 --> 00:59:36.045
Nobody had like looped me in.

00:59:36.045 --> 00:59:36.954
So I'm like I didn't know he's a client and I didn't know that his boss was like orchestrating this.

00:59:36.954 --> 00:59:37.858
Nobody had like looped me in.

00:59:37.858 --> 00:59:41.126
So I'm like I don't know how my client is going to feel about that.

00:59:41.126 --> 00:59:47.416
You're in management, so there's a chance you could have your deposition taken and I would be the attorney defending you at your deposition.

00:59:47.416 --> 00:59:50.181
I don't, I don't know.

00:59:50.181 --> 00:59:54.085
I literally don't know if I can go out with you, regardless of if I want to or not.

00:59:54.085 --> 00:59:54.965
I don't know if I can.

00:59:55.927 --> 00:59:59.871
So he was great and he was like okay, well, like just just know, it's an open invitation.

00:59:59.871 --> 01:00:03.476
Good for him, hell, yeah, yeah.

01:00:03.476 --> 01:00:06.784
So I literally did the legal research and he was like persistent.

01:00:06.784 --> 01:00:08.818
I was sort of just like, well, I don't know whatever.

01:00:08.818 --> 01:00:09.661
But he didn't stop.

01:00:09.661 --> 01:00:11.766
He was like kept asking, kept asking.

01:00:11.766 --> 01:00:21.601
Finally he was like you know what?

01:00:21.601 --> 01:00:21.956
What, I just want to be your friend.

01:00:21.956 --> 01:00:24.427
If you're not interested, that's fine, no pressure, I we I just want to be your friend outside of like work.

01:00:24.427 --> 01:00:25.057
And so that was where I was like, okay, I'll go on a date with you.

01:00:25.057 --> 01:00:30.315
So we went on our first date and I was like, okay, let's not tell your boss about the first date, because let's see if there's anything to even tell.

01:00:30.556 --> 01:00:33.141
Right, like I know I like you, but like maybe we just don't have that chemistry.

01:00:33.141 --> 01:00:36.206
It it was like the most amazing first date ever.

01:00:36.206 --> 01:00:37.409
It was like out of a movie.

01:00:37.409 --> 01:00:40.565
It was like love at first sight or love at first date.

01:00:40.565 --> 01:00:42.942
We have not been apart since.

01:00:42.942 --> 01:00:51.684
He immediately like deleted his like all of his dating apps, ended every like conversation that he was having with every other girl from like literally that night.

01:00:51.684 --> 01:00:57.014
We got married on the anniversary of our first date because it was literally like we were never.

01:00:57.014 --> 01:00:58.521
We were never apart.

01:00:58.521 --> 01:01:01.492
We now have a child, we have a son together, and it was.

01:01:01.592 --> 01:01:05.652
It was really interesting because we both said when we started dating, like hey, I don't want to get married again.

01:01:05.652 --> 01:01:07.583
Like both of us were like we don't want to get married again.

01:01:07.583 --> 01:01:08.427
He already.

01:01:08.427 --> 01:01:10.737
He has a son from his prior marriage, who's wonderful.

01:01:10.737 --> 01:01:14.123
But so he was like I don't want more kids and I was like I don't want't want kids.

01:01:14.123 --> 01:01:16.427
So that works Right.

01:01:16.427 --> 01:01:18.516
I know so fast forward.

01:01:18.516 --> 01:01:23.059
And so I remember we were laying in bed one day and he goes like he rolled over and he was like hey, you know what?

01:01:23.059 --> 01:01:29.581
Like I've been thinking a lot about this and I don't want to be the reason that you don't get to experience motherhood.

01:01:29.581 --> 01:01:39.039
If that's something that you want, I'm open to being the one that, like, makes that happen for you.

01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.146
And I was like, oh, I got to think about this, cause I don't, I didn't.

01:01:41.146 --> 01:01:41.887
Okay, let me think about it.

01:01:41.887 --> 01:01:43.012
So yeah.

01:01:43.012 --> 01:01:44.675
So now we've been, that was 2017.

01:01:44.675 --> 01:01:49.047
We've been together ever since our son is five and happily married.

01:01:49.934 --> 01:01:52.483
So that is an amazing story.

01:01:52.784 --> 01:01:54.958
Oh my God he does not work for that client anymore.

01:01:54.958 --> 01:01:59.206
He's now a superintendent for a mechanical company in here in Sacramento.

01:01:59.206 --> 01:02:00.929
But but yeah, so I still represent the client.

01:02:00.929 --> 01:02:02.599
He doesn't work there anymore, but it's a love story.

01:02:03.762 --> 01:02:04.885
So awesome that's.

01:02:04.885 --> 01:02:05.327
That's a.

01:02:05.327 --> 01:02:06.858
There's a movie there.

01:02:06.858 --> 01:02:11.356
I think there's a Netflix series in there for sure, Especially like with the yacht and all that.

01:02:11.356 --> 01:02:13.538
That's that's freaking awesome.

01:02:13.538 --> 01:02:16.460
All right, two questions as we round.

01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:18.922
Third, and head home One.

01:02:18.922 --> 01:02:28.728
Like you said, you have five things jobs, things that you do, but you're also like planning retreats or a mini conference or something.

01:02:28.728 --> 01:02:29.048
You do.

01:02:29.048 --> 01:02:29.509
That too.

01:02:29.509 --> 01:02:31.849
You're like an event organizer also.

01:02:31.849 --> 01:02:32.190
Yeah.

01:02:32.670 --> 01:02:49.882
Well, there is a conference, but I have to give, it's so interesting that we're rounding out with this, because we started out talking about my parents and you're going to be surprised to hear this, but this involves my dad, so, yeah, so what happened was I made an offhanded comment to like it's just somebody in the construction space on LinkedIn.

01:02:49.882 --> 01:02:57.188
One time we were doing a coffee chat and I was like, wouldn't it be cool if, like a bunch of us got together in one place, like we used to do Remember pre-COVID, when we actually still networked in person?

01:02:57.188 --> 01:02:59.563
Wouldn't it be fun if we like all got together?

01:02:59.563 --> 01:03:01.862
And he was like, yeah, that would be awesome, you should organize that.

01:03:01.862 --> 01:03:02.565
And I was like, okay.

01:03:02.565 --> 01:03:08.402
Then I had like another coffee chat, like a week later, and I said it again and that person was like, yeah, you should organize that.

01:03:08.402 --> 01:03:24.364
And then I thing, you know, josh Harvey has a podcast with John Goose Dunham on it.

01:03:24.385 --> 01:03:28.320
I'm listening to the replay and they're like, oh, yeah, megan Shapiro, she's hosting a retreat, a construction retreat, in Savannah in September.

01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.644
And I was like I'm doing what now?

01:03:29.644 --> 01:03:32.117
What's happening?

01:03:32.177 --> 01:03:32.938
It's a retreat now.

01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:40.635
Oh, I thought that we were going to like, pick a city and all just be like, okay, what weekend should we all just go to this random city and hang out with each other?

01:03:40.635 --> 01:03:43.983
No, so now it's a full three-day retreat.

01:03:43.983 --> 01:03:48.141
It's called Construction LinkedIn in Real Life hashtag Savannah in September.

01:03:48.141 --> 01:03:52.577
We're going to Savannah, georgia, the last weekend of September, which is sorry.

01:03:52.577 --> 01:03:56.065
I have to look at my calendar on the wall September 27th through the 29th.

01:03:56.065 --> 01:04:04.876
We are going to be three days.

01:04:04.876 --> 01:04:07.282
There's going to be a mix, a combination of organized formal events and organized informal events.

01:04:07.282 --> 01:04:14.327
So right now, the current itinerary looks like Friday night is going to be a little bit on your own, except for we're going to do a ghost tour because I love.

01:04:14.327 --> 01:04:15.219
Well right, it all ties together.

01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:17.291
We're going to do a ghost tour because I love well right, it all ties together.

01:04:17.291 --> 01:04:21.496
We're going to do a ghost tour of Old Savannah and that's kind of like, if you want to join us, join us.

01:04:22.139 --> 01:04:25.172
Saturday is going to be a day full of organized programming.

01:04:25.172 --> 01:04:28.505
We are in the process of finalizing the details on a conference room.

01:04:28.505 --> 01:04:34.903
We're going to have breakfast and lunch served at the conference room, with coffee breaks and snack breaks in between.

01:04:34.903 --> 01:04:42.856
We're going to have networking opportunities, breakout sessions, some presentations from a few people, I think still talking about that, what that's going to look like.

01:04:42.856 --> 01:04:43.800
But that's going to be more formal.

01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:55.625
Saturday night we're going to again this is whoever wants to join we're going to do dinner on the river, the riverboat cruise tour dinner on Saturday night and then Sunday is still up in the air.

01:04:55.625 --> 01:05:02.182
I don't know if that's going to be an organized breakfast or if that's going to just sort of be like whoever wants to get together to follow up on their networking conversations from Saturday.

01:05:02.704 --> 01:05:05.320
But the reason why I said my dad is because I am not organizing any of it.

01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:06.583
I roped in my dad.

01:05:06.583 --> 01:05:08.307
My dad is semi-retired.

01:05:08.307 --> 01:05:13.206
He has been a lifelong salesperson and he had many years where he was in sales and construction.

01:05:13.206 --> 01:05:23.121
So when this looked like a thing that everybody was expecting, like a big production for, I called my dad and I was like dad, I need you, like I got to ask for help.

01:05:23.121 --> 01:05:24.277
So my dad.

01:05:24.318 --> 01:05:25.764
I got to give all credit to my dad.

01:05:25.764 --> 01:05:28.481
He has taken the laboring ore on organizing all of it.

01:05:28.481 --> 01:05:33.239
He's been interfacing with the hotel, been working out the contract details, doing all of that.

01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:37.978
So my dad gets credit, so he's going to be coming too.

01:05:37.978 --> 01:05:40.342
So everybody will get to meet my dad, since he's actually the real mastermind behind the planning.

01:05:40.342 --> 01:05:46.384
But we are going to be capped at 25 people because it's the first time out and I didn't want to get in over my head.

01:05:46.384 --> 01:05:53.387
So we should be finalizing all of the contracts with the hotel in the next week or so and then I'm going to.

01:05:53.387 --> 01:06:04.469
Then tickets will go on sale and it will just be first come, first serve, and when 25 are sold, then that's it, and if it's popular, I'm open to making it an annual thing.

01:06:04.489 --> 01:06:06.635
Oh girl, yeah, so, and I don't know, I, since you can edit this, I guess I'll just say this.

01:06:06.635 --> 01:06:10.340
I don't know if you want to talk about your involvement in it yet or not, but that'm going to be there.

01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:21.721
Okay, yeah, and I hope people have learned this and I hope you know this.

01:06:21.721 --> 01:06:30.065
Like I'm all about supporting people bringing new ideas into the world, like awesome people, and you are one of those people.

01:06:30.065 --> 01:06:33.539
There's a lot of people that have ideas and talk smack.

01:06:33.539 --> 01:06:36.668
I'm just going to say it and make some people wrong.

01:06:36.668 --> 01:06:47.922
There's a lot of people that are happy to say, yeah, you should do that, and you still don't know if them fools are going to show up, even though they were the ones that were instigating it.

01:06:47.922 --> 01:07:04.387
So I know what that feels like and when I heard about it, I'm like this woman don't play, I need to contribute, and you were gracious enough to allow me to contribute or invite me to contribute and invite me to come and hang out.

01:07:04.387 --> 01:07:07.083
So I'm excited for whatever the hell it's going to be.

01:07:07.083 --> 01:07:10.806
I get the sense that it's going to be freaking amazing and it's not going to be the last one.

01:07:10.806 --> 01:07:14.367
So that's what I got to say about that Love it.

01:07:14.367 --> 01:07:20.045
Closing question Miss Megan, what is the promise you are intended to be?

01:07:21.155 --> 01:07:23.081
Ooh, that is a good closing question.

01:07:23.081 --> 01:07:23.804
You know what?

01:07:23.804 --> 01:07:25.320
And I'm just going to be really honest with you.

01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:26.780
I've heard you talk a lot about this.

01:07:26.780 --> 01:07:29.623
I've heard it as your sort of tagline catchphrase.

01:07:29.623 --> 01:07:35.469
I don't necessarily know if I really understand what it means, so I'm going to put it back in your court.

01:07:35.469 --> 01:07:36.574
What's yours?

01:07:36.574 --> 01:07:39.902
Give me an example, and then that'll help me understand what mine is.

01:07:40.844 --> 01:07:41.246
I love it.

01:07:41.246 --> 01:07:42.436
So a little bit of context.

01:07:42.436 --> 01:07:46.086
It's the title of my book, right, becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.

01:07:46.086 --> 01:07:51.425
It comes from one of my counselors when I was in rehab inpatient rehab.

01:07:51.425 --> 01:07:52.907
He pointed out to me.

01:07:52.907 --> 01:07:57.927
He says, jess, you're pretty good at admitting that you have a problem, that you're an alcoholic, that you're an addict, et cetera.

01:07:57.927 --> 01:07:59.601
He says but you haven't accepted.

01:07:59.601 --> 01:08:05.007
And I say what freaking lawyer games are we playing here, splitting hairs on words?

01:08:05.007 --> 01:08:20.219
And he said no, what you haven't accepted is that if you continue to live life the way you're living it, you will never become the promise you are intended to be, will never become the promise you are intended to be.

01:08:20.219 --> 01:08:21.903
And so in that moment I still can't like articulate it worth a damn.

01:08:21.922 --> 01:08:33.907
But in that moment I knew all of those times that I felt like I could be more, I could contribute more, that I suppressed because that's impractical.

01:08:33.907 --> 01:08:36.451
That was the promise that I could see.

01:08:36.451 --> 01:08:43.944
All of those times that I felt conviction for making selfish, short-sighted decisions.

01:08:43.944 --> 01:08:46.229
That was me missing the mark.

01:08:46.229 --> 01:08:48.759
And so fast forward to now.

01:08:48.759 --> 01:08:55.926
For me, becoming the promise I'm intended to be is a matter of me sharing my gifts and talents and service to others?

01:08:55.926 --> 01:08:58.917
How can I contribute to others' path?

01:08:58.917 --> 01:09:07.581
How can I help them, guide them, support them, cheer them on in their path to self-discovery?

01:09:07.581 --> 01:09:09.926
That's the promise I am intended to be.

01:09:09.926 --> 01:09:10.967
How does that help?

01:09:11.395 --> 01:09:11.935
That does help.

01:09:11.935 --> 01:09:33.734
Yeah, so I guess I would say similar to you, but I'm a little bit more specific about it in the sense that I really genuinely believe in the power of proactive risk management, and so I really just want to get the message out to construction leaders of all shapes and sizes there is so like I.

01:09:33.734 --> 01:09:46.481
Literally they don't understand how much they're losing in money because, like you, can truly, truly increase your profits, you can increase your bottom line by being strategic about your risk management.

01:09:46.481 --> 01:09:50.235
There are ways that you can track your ROI on this.

01:09:50.235 --> 01:09:52.362
Like they're, like they're you, I can level.

01:09:52.362 --> 01:09:53.685
I can help them level up.

01:09:53.685 --> 01:09:57.644
I want to help them level up in this very targeted and specific way.

01:09:57.644 --> 01:10:00.483
That's, I guess, the promise that I'm intended to be.

01:10:00.996 --> 01:10:07.542
I understand, like the money thing is a good thing to anchor on because it's measurable, it's easily measured, yeah.

01:10:07.542 --> 01:10:25.149
But you and I both know that by investing in your services or maybe not even your services, but in a proactive risk mitigation strategy your quality of life is going to be profoundly better.

01:10:26.394 --> 01:10:26.795
Am I wrong?

01:10:27.034 --> 01:10:42.204
No, not at all, and again, I talked about this earlier, but with the live stream that I just did with one of my clients, one of the biggest hurdles and the hardest impacts that they felt from that catastrophic lawsuit that they were facing was the emotional toll that it took on them.

01:10:42.265 --> 01:11:22.935
And I think that a lot of times, leaders who haven't yet experienced it and I do mean yet, because it is inevitable, I mean, if you're in construction for any length of time, beyond a blink of an eye, you're going to get there, it's going to happen and I think people don't really fully appreciate the emotional toll that it takes Literally sleepless nights, emails to me that were sent at 2.30 in the morning because they can't fall asleep, because they're replaying it over and over and over in their head, losing sleep, worrying about the people that they're employing and their families, and the domino effect of like, if they can't figure a way out of this, they have now lost their entire workforce and their workforce is out of work.

01:11:22.935 --> 01:11:32.369
Their family doesn't now, now doesn't have that paycheck, and that weighs heavy on a leader, heavy on a leader, and I think that's exactly it.

01:11:32.369 --> 01:11:32.912
People don't.

01:11:32.912 --> 01:11:37.645
They don't really appreciate the toll that it takes, and so if you can prevent that, why wouldn't you?

01:11:39.515 --> 01:11:41.604
Amen sister, Did you have fun?

01:11:41.914 --> 01:11:42.677
I had a blast.

01:11:42.677 --> 01:11:44.384
I always have a blast talking to you, Jesse.

01:11:46.135 --> 01:11:48.179
Same Tons of energy.

01:11:48.179 --> 01:11:51.184
I think we're going to melt the internet when this thing goes live.

New to Learnings and Missteps The Podcast?

Here are some great episodes to start with.

Episode image for Bringing Back the Trades with Steve Turner
Bringing Back the Trades with Steve Turner
Episode image for How to Not Be a “Starving Artist” & Go Full-Time as a Metal Artist with Barbie The Welder
How to Not Be a “Starving Artist” & Go Full-Time as a Metal Artist with Barbie The Welder
Episode image for Finding Complete Fulfillment as a Woman in Construction
Finding Complete Fulfillment as a Woman in Construction