Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.220 --> 00:00:08.064
Everybody has the same five basic problems, and a problem is a situation in life that you have to figure out how you're going to deal with it.
00:00:08.064 --> 00:00:09.608
How do you manage your time?
00:00:09.608 --> 00:00:11.012
How do you manage money?
00:00:11.012 --> 00:00:13.163
How do you manage feelings?
00:00:13.163 --> 00:00:16.792
How do we build healthy, fulfilling relationships?
00:00:16.792 --> 00:00:20.995
And the fifth one was what do you do that's meaningful in your life?
00:00:20.995 --> 00:00:21.899
How do you find meaning?
00:00:22.201 --> 00:00:23.667
What is going on?
00:00:23.667 --> 00:00:34.283
L&m family, I've got a special guest for you who's not only, I think, a hero of mine, but maybe a hero of many folks out there in the construction industry.
00:00:34.283 --> 00:00:40.006
This is the lean construction space, and you may not even know that he's your hero because he's been out there.
00:00:40.006 --> 00:00:50.173
He's been in the space, mr Victor Ortiz, doing organizational transformation, and not just organizational transformation but industry transformation.
00:00:50.173 --> 00:00:58.695
And now he's in this new era or maybe not new era, but a really hefty message around high performance leadership.
00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:07.004
And before you get to meet Mr Vic, you know I've got to give a shout out to the L&M family member that dropped this really thoughtful note.
00:01:07.004 --> 00:01:11.075
He said I found your content very inspirational.
00:01:11.075 --> 00:01:21.305
I found myself on a very slippery slope the last few months, leaning on something in a glass more than I should to drown out the noise.
00:01:21.305 --> 00:01:22.930
I just order your book.
00:01:22.930 --> 00:01:24.834
Thanks for the inspiration.
00:01:24.834 --> 00:01:28.444
So, mr L&M family member out there, you know who you are.
00:01:28.444 --> 00:01:32.442
Thank you very much for sharing that, because that's the whole purpose of the book.
00:01:32.442 --> 00:01:35.088
Right, we're not alone and we can help one another.
00:01:35.088 --> 00:01:37.620
And that's enough flapping from me.
00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:39.844
Here we go with Mr Vic.
00:01:39.844 --> 00:01:41.487
Mr Vic, good morning.
00:01:41.487 --> 00:01:42.849
And how are you, my friend?
00:01:43.631 --> 00:01:45.132
Well, it's great to be here.
00:01:45.132 --> 00:01:46.215
I'm really excited.
00:01:46.215 --> 00:01:57.784
This is the kind of conversation that doesn't happen enough Genuine, genuine, let's get down to what's real, to the best of our ability, kind of conversation.
00:01:57.784 --> 00:02:06.649
So it's been a delight to sit and think about what I might try to share and what I hope we can do together.
00:02:07.688 --> 00:02:16.413
Oh yes, Thank you, and you know the prep, the slight touches that you and I had before, like actually locking in the date and scheduling a time to record.
00:02:16.413 --> 00:02:40.250
Really I got super excited, not just because of the influence that you've had in the industry at large, but also because of the history, Like what I gathered, when this whole lean construction movement hit the industry was on the West coast around the nineties, and word is that you're kind of complicit in that.
00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:40.891
Am I off?
00:02:42.301 --> 00:02:45.762
No, no, but that's.
00:02:45.762 --> 00:02:49.949
That's maybe a place to come back and touch on.
00:02:49.949 --> 00:03:06.540
Okay, the founders of Lean Construction, greg Hull and Glenn Ballard, came to training that was put on by an organization called Interaction Associates, and they were founded by two architects of all things.
00:03:06.540 --> 00:03:13.381
And the architects wrote a book called how to Make Meetings Work, which was transformative for me.
00:03:13.381 --> 00:03:36.825
They were the first ones to really write about the distinction between the process, the way that you ran a meeting, or, if you're talking, take it up from meeting to meetings in a project, in a collaboration in a community organization, in a dispute resolution, where there's a series of meetings that the process you use to manage.
00:03:36.825 --> 00:03:38.048
That is really important.
00:03:38.048 --> 00:03:56.854
And they wrote the book on what it meant to be a neutral third-party facilitator and how a leader could liberate themselves from trying to manage both process and content and being overwhelmed by it and just going for whatever they wanted to have happen at the exclusion of everyone else.
00:03:56.854 --> 00:04:25.766
How they could liberate themselves by having somebody facilitate and somebody in the old days before computers were using flip charts and so having somebody recording while somebody was watching the group and managing the process and the leader could actually be free to listen to what their people had to say and to help shape and help plan so that they could focus on what they cared about, which was the content, instead of ignoring the process and having it go awry.
00:04:25.766 --> 00:04:31.964
The neutral facilitator could really help guide the process and together you created much more productivity.
00:04:32.024 --> 00:04:36.603
Well, I started reading that stuff and I went oh man, why don't we do this?
00:04:36.603 --> 00:04:38.048
Why doesn't everybody do this?
00:04:38.048 --> 00:04:42.043
I got to learn how to do this, so I finally.
00:04:42.043 --> 00:04:45.812
It took years for me to convince Interaction Associates to hire me.
00:04:45.812 --> 00:05:00.240
I was their eighth employee Okay, these two guys, doyle and Strauss and when I started working with them, I went off and worked at rethinking Ford Motor Company's whole product development process.
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:13.653
We put together this huge collaborative process with a bunch of process redesign teams that we facilitated, and I facilitated the program management redesign team, rethinking how leaders work with teams.
00:05:13.653 --> 00:05:16.528
You know what a great setup for what was to come.
00:05:16.528 --> 00:05:38.992
While we were working at Ford, we got a call from Pac Bell and we were asked to help them with this big, what's now called Bishop Ranch facility, and they're building this huge facility with four wings on either side and a huge central facility, and they were two-thirds of the way, way over budget, way behind schedule, everything.
00:05:39.052 --> 00:05:41.487
A mess Pac Bell was freaking out.
00:05:41.487 --> 00:06:00.053
They brought in Michael Doyle with me as his assistant facilitator and we put up on the wall we facilitated this meeting with the top 20 of 120 subcontractors, top 20 superintendents of the biggest firms, most influential firms.
00:06:00.053 --> 00:06:13.255
We plastered the wall with paper, we got out post-it notes and we had them describe what the process was and where it was breaking down and how would they redesign it.
00:06:13.255 --> 00:06:23.055
And sitting in the back of the room was another guy that Pac Bell had hired, by the name of Greg Howell, who was at Stanford at the time.
00:06:23.055 --> 00:06:31.377
Greg Howell, who was at Stanford at the time and Greg had never seen anybody get 20 superintendents work together in a matter of about five minutes and spend a day redesigning stuff.
00:06:31.377 --> 00:06:38.233
He'd never seen anybody do process mapping using post-it notes and he'd never seen neutral facilitation.
00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:43.771
And Greg being a smart guy that he was said holy crap, I got to learn this.
00:06:43.771 --> 00:06:49.644
A smart guy that he was said, holy crap, I got to learn this.
00:06:49.644 --> 00:06:55.423
That sort of gets to a theme for today, I think, which is when you see something that you didn't know and it sounds great, you better go learn it.
00:06:55.423 --> 00:07:07.351
And it turns out we had a two-day manager meetings course and a four-day advanced facilitator intensive course really heavy-duty course and Greg says I got to go.
00:07:07.351 --> 00:07:08.434
We said of course you do.
00:07:08.434 --> 00:07:16.180
And he said I got to bring the smartest guy I've ever met with me because he's going to dig this, and that was Glenn Ballard.
00:07:16.180 --> 00:07:38.086
So in 1983, early 84, glenn and Greg went through all six days of the training and I was lucky enough to be one of the co trainers and we became friends and they realized that everything in construction needs to be about collaboration instead of command and control.
00:07:38.086 --> 00:07:42.624
And I got to facilitate many of the formative meetings of LCI.
00:07:42.624 --> 00:07:47.353
So that's the skinny on how all that happened.
00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:50.709
So summary it's your fault.
00:07:50.709 --> 00:07:55.108
Maybe, that's an oversimplification.
00:07:56.221 --> 00:08:00.675
Much brighter people than I am developed that I just.
00:08:00.675 --> 00:08:03.120
You know the power of neutral facilitation.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:18.382
I'll say this for your listeners If you learn facilitation skills, it will take you to places that are way beyond your pay grade and will help you improve your pay grade by getting in there and showing that you can actually help improve things.
00:08:19.665 --> 00:08:20.767
Oh, my goodness, Okay.
00:08:20.767 --> 00:08:23.052
So there's a few points that you've made.
00:08:23.052 --> 00:08:24.779
I love the combination of words neutral, facilitation, right.
00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:25.076
So there's a few points that you've made.
00:08:25.076 --> 00:08:27.509
I love the combination of words neutral, facilitation, right.
00:08:27.509 --> 00:08:38.461
So there's an assumption, at least in my head, when I hear that of objectivity and my role in the space is to facilitate a conversation, not drive, direct or guide.
00:08:38.461 --> 00:08:41.044
You use the word collaboration.
00:08:42.047 --> 00:08:44.431
Precisely, that's exactly right.
00:08:44.431 --> 00:08:51.009
It's somebody who's watching how things are getting done and not trying to sell their point of view.
00:08:51.831 --> 00:08:53.696
Yes, yes, yes.
00:08:53.696 --> 00:08:59.488
You said collaboration, which, again, if the objectivity is a big deal.
00:08:59.488 --> 00:09:04.667
Now you also said that you all selected 20 of the most influential superintendents.
00:09:04.667 --> 00:09:06.981
So I got a little curious there.
00:09:06.981 --> 00:09:18.928
The word influential was that 20 of the subcontractors that had the greatest amount of the contract or scope for this building.
00:09:19.429 --> 00:09:37.552
We were not necessarily picking the people who could change things, so we were looking at the people who had the biggest scope of work and, you know, would therefore be likely the most responsible for being over budget and behind schedule the largest contributors Yep.
00:09:37.552 --> 00:09:53.203
Yeah, with the exception of management, of course, which the owner and the general contractor scheduler, who was Charlie Kuffner, at the time working for Swinerton, who had the job, and so that's where I met Charlie too.
00:09:54.248 --> 00:09:54.950
Understood.
00:09:54.950 --> 00:10:23.581
I think those parameters are important because, especially nowadays, you hear the word influencer or influential and it means something entirely different, right, like I think people will automatically envision a handsome devil like myself when they hear influencer, but we're talking about, like brass tacks, largest amount of scope that, on path or off path, will have the biggest influence on the flow of work and the performance and et cetera.
00:10:23.682 --> 00:10:28.913
Right, People are highly at risk for their margins on their bids for this work.
00:10:28.913 --> 00:10:40.884
Who will be likely to blame each other and end up in court, or be sued by Pac Bell in this case for failure to perform?
00:10:40.884 --> 00:10:43.350
So they had a lot of skin in the game.
00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.745
Yes, I'm curious, though, like you're facilitating, this conversation is collaborative.
00:10:48.745 --> 00:10:53.565
They're visualizing the flow or the relationships, interaction of the work and the sequence of work.
00:10:53.565 --> 00:10:57.602
Like did you just you read the book and you knew how to do that?
00:10:57.602 --> 00:10:58.664
Like, was that a natural?
00:10:58.664 --> 00:10:59.748
No, no, I.
00:11:00.408 --> 00:11:01.753
I read, I read the book.
00:11:01.753 --> 00:11:13.288
Well, let's, let's go back and I'll tell a little bit of the story, because this is all about lessons and missteps, and how I got into all of this is very different for most people who grew up in construction.
00:11:13.288 --> 00:11:28.182
Right, I grew up I'm a kid of the 60s, I'm 72 right now, and in the 60s I did what a lot of us did in the 60s I experimented with a lot of drugs and I did that.
00:11:28.182 --> 00:11:37.655
I think and this is apropos of your contributor that you were shouting out to who was finding solace in the glass.
00:11:37.655 --> 00:11:50.749
In my case, it wasn't so much finding solace, it was that I recognized at an early age that there was something missing in my life, and I think what was missing because of the family.
00:11:50.808 --> 00:12:04.426
I grew up in were very smart people, but Norwegians of a Victorian background who knew nothing about feelings, knew nothing about honest confrontation.
00:12:04.426 --> 00:12:09.605
You know, if we had alcoholism in the family, as we did, nobody talked about it.
00:12:09.605 --> 00:12:15.725
If something was difficult and embarrassing, everybody pretended it wasn't happening.
00:12:15.725 --> 00:12:36.807
By the time I was a teenager and there were a lot of expectations because my family was full of people who had huge academic success that I must be extremely smart and I'm going to go to Harvard and I'm going to, which I did not, and I'm sure you've heard the term imposter syndrome here.
00:12:36.807 --> 00:13:07.403
I am one of the only kids ever in Eau Claire, wisconsin, in the 50s, with a Hispanic last name in this Norwegian, very smart family thinking, and I'm under tremendous pressure to succeed, and to succeed means being glib and having the answer and being on top of stuff, and I was, when I got into junior high, not on top of anything, but I was curious.
00:13:07.403 --> 00:13:09.142
I had an uncle who was a psychiatrist.
00:13:09.142 --> 00:13:11.001
I was curious about how the mind works.
00:13:11.001 --> 00:13:21.408
The mind works, and so I started.
00:13:21.408 --> 00:13:28.111
You know, I heard about turn on, tune in, drop out, expand your mind and so on, and I thought, well, I got to see what this is about.
00:13:28.111 --> 00:13:28.554
And so I did.
00:13:29.115 --> 00:13:31.139
And I got in trouble for drugs when I was 19.
00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:41.905
And I had gone from learning that my mind was quite malleable, that you put a different chemical in and you began to change your perceptions and that perceptions could, in fact, be managed.
00:13:41.905 --> 00:13:43.238
You could change your perceptions.
00:13:43.238 --> 00:13:55.950
What I'd also done was I'd begun to build a social network that was all around this ritual of getting stoned together and managing drugs and giving each other, you know, sharing our lid of weed or whatever it was.
00:13:55.950 --> 00:14:04.583
And I got stuck in it and I knew that I needed to do something different, like I'd learned what I could learn from this very quickly.
00:14:04.583 --> 00:14:06.341
And now what was next?
00:14:06.341 --> 00:14:10.405
And nobody that I knew had a solution to what was next for me.
00:14:10.405 --> 00:14:17.524
So I ended up getting busted and I ended up being invited to this confab.
00:14:17.524 --> 00:14:27.645
I was trying to work at a free clinic to look like I was trying to do something positive about drugs instead of what I'd been busted for and hoping that I could avoid prison.
00:14:28.989 --> 00:14:32.899
And there were a couple of people from this place called Awareness House.
00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:46.913
So I'm starting here with a huge misstep Right, getting busted, and the first lesson here is that some of the biggest missteps become some of the greatest opportunities to learn and grow Right?
00:14:46.913 --> 00:14:51.700
Oh yeah, so I was in serious danger and I went to this.
00:14:51.700 --> 00:14:56.876
I was lucky enough to show up because I was curious and I wanted to do something good.
00:14:56.876 --> 00:14:59.663
I knew that that was what was happening inside me.
00:15:00.184 --> 00:15:17.366
I went to this thing where I found out about a training center the first National Institute of Drug Abuse Training Center out in California, where a lot of people who were ex-addicts were actually teaching people in communities how to organize and create places for kids to go.
00:15:17.366 --> 00:15:32.270
They used drop-in centers as a kind of location, and the people that they trained to be counselors were usually ex-users who were trained by people who had been through something like Synanon or some of these therapeutic community programs.
00:15:32.270 --> 00:15:37.765
It was the first time I met people who could answer the question okay, what's next when you stop using?
00:15:37.765 --> 00:15:38.307
What do you do?
00:15:38.307 --> 00:15:39.009
Where do you grow?
00:15:39.009 --> 00:15:39.996
Where do you learn?
00:15:39.996 --> 00:15:45.307
I tried to impress these guys instantly, too, with all of my I'd read some books.
00:15:46.677 --> 00:15:47.259
Oh yeah.
00:15:47.418 --> 00:15:59.504
And they saw me as just full of BS, you know, trying to impress and so on, where inside they could see through to this scared, ignorant guy who was afraid of admitting that he didn't know what to do.
00:15:59.504 --> 00:16:09.881
And the fact that they could see through me so easily meant that they understood things, knew things, had been through things themselves that I hadn't.
00:16:10.663 --> 00:16:12.288
And I thought whatever I do.
00:16:13.275 --> 00:16:14.820
I got to go to this training center.
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:16.144
I got to go learn this.
00:16:16.144 --> 00:16:18.701
I got it, that's the next step in my journey.
00:16:18.701 --> 00:16:29.466
So I went and I worked five years in a therapeutic community drug program and I went in thinking like I was I'm going to be a counselor.
00:16:29.466 --> 00:16:33.164
I had been clean about 30 seconds.
00:16:33.164 --> 00:16:36.504
I had no idea what I was doing.
00:16:36.504 --> 00:16:45.259
I remember sitting down in a confrontation therapy group with a kid who was a couple years younger than me and he said well, what brings you here?
00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:47.245
And I said, well, I've been hired, I hope I can help.
00:16:47.245 --> 00:16:52.298
And he looked at me and he said I didn't come here to be helped by you, I came here to help myself.
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.745
Woo, woo-hoo Powerful.
00:16:59.341 --> 00:17:02.336
Yup, Yup, I again.
00:17:02.336 --> 00:17:06.023
I knew I was in the right place because I saw through my BS instantly.
00:17:06.634 --> 00:17:07.117
Yeah.
00:17:07.178 --> 00:17:32.623
And I think you know for me, putting myself in a place where people who know a lot more than I do see through my attempts to look good, and I have to confront what I don't know and get curious and learn and find some humility, which was terrifying to me that's been a great thing in my life.
00:17:32.623 --> 00:17:38.506
So a couple things from that that I think are fundamental to share today.
00:17:39.228 --> 00:17:39.428
Yeah.
00:17:39.855 --> 00:17:52.651
One is that the idea there were a couple of really key things that I learned in the therapeutic community environment that I've used through my entire life and all my career was the idea that we didn't have a drug problem.
00:17:52.651 --> 00:17:54.382
What we had was a drug solution.
00:17:54.382 --> 00:18:03.919
Hmm, okay, that what we didn't?
00:18:03.919 --> 00:18:04.242
We didn't have a drug problem.
00:18:04.242 --> 00:18:04.347
What we had was a drug solution.
00:18:04.347 --> 00:18:16.348
Okay, so neil lombardi, my mentor there, who was a guy with a sixth grade education whose father was a mafia godfather in new york, his his name on the streets was johnny black and he pearl handled 38s under his black suit as a gangster, right yeah, he went to Synanon for four years.
00:18:16.434 --> 00:18:18.162
He was a heroin addict from age 12.
00:18:18.162 --> 00:18:31.182
Neil said everybody has the same five basic problems and a problem is a situation in life that you have to figure out how you're going to deal with it, some basic thing that's going on.
00:18:31.182 --> 00:18:36.508
His five basic life challenges were how do you manage your time?
00:18:36.508 --> 00:18:43.151
Yeah, which includes free time, self-care, work, family, etc.
00:18:43.151 --> 00:18:43.933
How do you manage time?
00:18:43.933 --> 00:18:50.468
Everybody every day gets up and they have to make choices about what am I going to do with myself today.
00:18:51.315 --> 00:18:52.959
Second one was how do you manage money?
00:18:52.959 --> 00:18:58.656
How do you earn it, spend it, think about it, etc.
00:18:58.656 --> 00:19:02.247
The third one was how do you manage feelings?
00:19:02.247 --> 00:19:11.463
How do you deal with feelings Something that my Norwegian Wisconsin conservative upbringing had not taught me at all.
00:19:11.463 --> 00:19:15.008
Complete blank on that Feeling.
00:19:15.008 --> 00:19:16.509
What is this feeling stuff?
00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:17.310
What is that?
00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:23.471
The fourth one was how do we build healthy, fulfilling relationships?
00:19:23.471 --> 00:19:25.136
How do you manage relationships?
00:19:25.136 --> 00:19:30.387
And the fifth one was what do you do that's meaningful in your life?
00:19:30.387 --> 00:19:32.218
How do you find meaning?
00:19:32.218 --> 00:19:35.463
And Neil said people who are addicted?
00:19:35.463 --> 00:19:39.036
Uh, how they manage free time?
00:19:39.036 --> 00:19:45.557
They're running after drugs, they're partying with people, they're trying not to get sick, and and so on.
00:19:45.557 --> 00:19:47.221
How do you manage money?
00:19:47.221 --> 00:19:48.787
You deal, you rip and run.
00:19:48.787 --> 00:19:50.270
You might.
00:19:50.270 --> 00:19:54.602
If you're not that addicted, you may able to work, but much of your time is spent.
00:19:54.602 --> 00:19:56.907
So how do you manage feelings?
00:19:56.907 --> 00:19:58.713
You hide them, drown them.
00:19:59.036 --> 00:20:03.606
Or you use the drugs as a chance and the alcohol as a chance to explode and blow off steam.
00:20:03.606 --> 00:20:06.744
How do you build healthy, fulfilling relationships?
00:20:06.744 --> 00:20:12.548
Well, they mostly revolve around rituals of using drugs together or going to the bar and drinking or whatever.
00:20:12.548 --> 00:20:18.867
So your rituals are built around this chemical support system.
00:20:18.867 --> 00:20:20.253
And then how do you find meaning?
00:20:20.253 --> 00:20:29.242
Well, that usually is in having some kind of a fake facade of being a tough guy or a cool guy or a rock and roller or whatever.
00:20:29.242 --> 00:20:49.557
It might be right, yep, a stand-up dude, right, oh, yeah, yep, yep, a stand up dude, right, yeah.
00:20:49.576 --> 00:20:50.779
So he said if you look at it, what people have is a lifestyle.
00:20:50.779 --> 00:20:53.246
Lifestyle is a set of solutions that you use, how you respond to these questions, and good solutions.
00:20:53.246 --> 00:20:54.387
You get good results.
00:20:54.387 --> 00:20:57.055
If they're crappy solutions, you get crappy results.
00:20:57.055 --> 00:21:00.605
If you get crappy results in your life, you look at yourself and you feel like crap.
00:21:00.605 --> 00:21:05.146
And you should, because you're not doing good things.
00:21:05.146 --> 00:21:09.767
So the secret is not that you have to just abstain or something.
00:21:09.767 --> 00:21:12.503
The secret is to learn a whole new set of life solutions.
00:21:12.785 --> 00:21:12.964
Yes.
00:21:14.517 --> 00:21:15.840
And boy, I had a lot to learn.
00:21:16.884 --> 00:21:19.739
Yes, you know, vic.
00:21:19.739 --> 00:21:29.142
Now it becomes extremely clear why I felt compelled by you and to talk with you, because your background very similar.
00:21:29.142 --> 00:21:42.930
I've wrestled with addiction for a long time and there's a couple of things that you have said so clearly around building the social networks.
00:21:42.930 --> 00:22:03.527
That was the frame of words that you used and, absolutely like looking in hindsight, that's what I did, right, and my social network revolved around, um maintaining my chemical solution to the way I was living life, a hundred percent.
00:22:03.527 --> 00:22:07.056
Now my social network is designed differently.
00:22:07.056 --> 00:22:24.489
Um, the distorted definition of success that I was brought up on has been contorted and switched in, maybe a healthier way, and I feel like that's what's happening in the construction industry right now.
00:22:24.489 --> 00:22:38.564
I feel like there's this point where we're starting to see that, man, maybe the way we've been defining success has led to the pains that we're experiencing now.
00:22:38.564 --> 00:22:40.261
What do you think about that?
00:22:42.425 --> 00:23:02.741
I think that's fairly profound, and if we think about the construction industry and tying this back to addiction, we've got two things going on for People, which they have.
00:23:02.781 --> 00:23:12.478
Right now has uncovered data that shows that the suicide rate in the construction industry is the highest of any industry, including the military.
00:23:12.644 --> 00:23:14.854
We all think of all the vets who kill themselves.
00:23:14.854 --> 00:23:27.105
We have terrible safety records and a lot of mental health, and we have a lot of people coming into construction industry who've been struggling with addictions or depression and so on.
00:23:27.105 --> 00:23:33.707
But they come into then an environment in which people are not necessarily treated with respect.
00:23:33.707 --> 00:23:35.711
They're treated as a pair of hands.
00:23:35.711 --> 00:23:38.117
They're treated as a disposable trade.
00:23:38.117 --> 00:23:48.770
Their chances and security of their future are not what they should be, and so there are lots of reasons for people to feel depressed or anxious and there's not a they should be, and so there are lots of reasons for people to feel depressed or anxious and there's not a lot of support.
00:23:49.833 --> 00:24:11.076
So I think this idea that if you're getting bad results, you have to look at what are the solutions you've been using, and in the construction industry, what's similar to addiction is that we have gotten into this pattern of doing things, thinking this is the way it's done, the same way as when you're addicted.
00:24:11.076 --> 00:24:14.247
What we've done is we've given up on conscious choices.
00:24:14.247 --> 00:24:17.657
We're doing things because it's become automatic.
00:24:17.657 --> 00:24:20.404
We're not even aware of making choices anymore.
00:24:21.425 --> 00:24:27.371
And there's a wonderful book that was written years ago called the Addicted Organization, which was arguing the same thing.
00:24:27.371 --> 00:24:32.275
Organizations get into this culture and this pattern and this is our set of solutions.
00:24:32.275 --> 00:24:41.121
And our set of solutions defines who we are, and we won't change that for anything, because if we do, then who am I and who are we as?
00:24:41.481 --> 00:24:44.267
a company yes, Right.
00:24:44.507 --> 00:24:55.160
So in the construction industry and in addiction, the thing to change is not to complain about everything that's wrong, though I mean we need to see it.
00:24:55.160 --> 00:25:00.016
Yes, it's to find better solutions that get better results.
00:25:00.016 --> 00:25:17.153
That's the whole focus, and in life and in changing an industry or changing an organization, and those better solutions involve the engagement of everybody in thinking about how to make the work better and how to redesign it so it works better.
00:25:17.153 --> 00:25:24.334
Yes, yes, back to the facilitation skills and the leadership skills and all of that.
00:25:24.334 --> 00:25:49.348
You, you know which, in my case, because I was lucky enough to have these wonderful mentors and then I've been intentional about trying to find people who know more than I do, which has never been that hard, and attaching myself to them, to just be very selfish about learning and being a better human being and more effective, you know.
00:25:49.348 --> 00:25:54.126
Then you learn better solutions, and the better the solutions are, the better your life is.
00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:55.210
Yes.
00:25:55.210 --> 00:26:04.593
So, vic, what's the relationship between high performance, leadership and facilitation and collaboration?
00:26:04.593 --> 00:26:06.175
Or is there a relationship?
00:26:06.497 --> 00:26:07.638
Oh, absolutely.
00:26:07.638 --> 00:26:12.576
So let's start with where does leadership show up?
00:26:12.576 --> 00:26:16.955
And it does not show up when you're sitting there by yourself.
00:26:16.955 --> 00:26:25.857
I mean, you may be thinking of things you're going to go do, but leadership is always in relationship to other people, right?
00:26:26.768 --> 00:26:27.269
So who are you?
00:26:27.289 --> 00:26:29.008
leading If you're not connecting with people.
